Workman's Comp Bull ####

[Bigus Termitius]

If you guys are using a temp agency you are already paying the high workers comp rate built in.

Maybe true sometimes, but I remember paying 14 something an hour to cover everything. Not bad...imho, and I more than got my money's worth. I've had good luck with them so far.

The main reason is when I don't need them....they aren't my problem. The second best reason is no real paperwork...just a labor bill.

I agree that it's not necessarily a total wc solution for what you said, but it keeps me separate from so much nonsense, and it is flexible.

 

[jefflovstrom]

two words...........drug test........

Yup, we drug test and expect a valid driver's license. We are TCIA Accredited and I am CTSP and so is Mike. We have a safety meeting every Wednesday and all sign off. Also by signing you understand that any injury no matter how small, get's reported immediately. You will not get away on Monday saying you got hurt Friday. Documentation is the word.
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

... I want you to be aware that some laws have changed that can really haunt you for paying small claims without reporting them...

In Missouri, we are expected to report ALL injuries, whether or not there is a claim for compensation. My insurance company will even contact me and offer to allow me to pay medical expenses less than $500.00.

You see, they will negotiate a lower bill from the medical providers, then send me the final bill. Lower experience mod, lower bills, more money!

... Also, Why all the hate for insurance companies? ...

I hate insurance companies in general. The concept of insurance is a bit offensive for me, just to begin with. I believe that people should take responsibility for their actions, and so many don't. Then I pay higher premiums than my losses, year after year.

The insurance companies are in the business to make money. They do so by averaging the losses, constantly boosting their income, and then pulling every dirty trick they can to make sure that they don't loose money.

It's not that I wouldn't do the same thing if I were running an insurance company, it's just that I don't like the necessity of buying their services to begin with.

 

[treeclimber101]

Do you guys have workman's comp and do you hate it like I do? Ever since I started paying for workman's comp, every ground man with any little ache and pain is always going to the doctor and racking up bills. I don't even know if it is worth it any more to have!! Anyone feel my pain....

How are using comp. to get an ache and pain fixed , it all about claims , sounds like you may be talking about health ins... My comp is based on hours worked doing what type of work ,tree work comp. is ridiculous compared to say landscape , maybe your confused I have state comp. it was the cheapest but I have never had a claim either , I would imagine that after my first claim things will start getting pricey , but if that happens I will just drag the guy to a lawnmower and say he tripped walking behind it ...I am not saying to do this but you COULD have every worker considered a sub contractor , the only issue with that is if you ever have a W Comp. audit they will ask for a sub list thats where you may get cancelled ..

 

[pdqdl]

The laws concerning whether an employee covered by WC are pretty specific. If you were paying for WC very long, you would know that the annual audit always asks for subcontractors.

If your "subcontractors" have not provided you with proof of WC coverage, you will get a bill for ALL subcontractor payments. There is no insurance advantage whatsoever for calling an employee a sub.

When I pay a snow removal subcontractor, I divide the payment into two parts: machine rental, and payroll. Payroll is usually some pitifull amount per hour like the minimum wage, and all workers comp is paid on that amount. Whatever the total expense for workers comp, matching FICA, unemployment insurance, etc; that amount of my expense is deducted from the gross pay on the snow removal. The balance is paid as machine rental. This keeps me from incurring WC & other payroll expenses that are truly the subcontractors obligation. At the same time, it also provides each guy plowing with real WC insurance coverage, should something bad happen.

 

[treeclimber101]

I have used a payroll company and the WC ins. through the Hartford and never had a audit with them , now I use NJM of New Jersey and process my payroll in house for 4 years and last year was my first audit ... Easy enough to get around just fax some info from taxes and answer a few questions , as far as a bill for subs if they cannot prove they are insured than we deduct that from there payment and pay the WC for there coverage as needed ...

 

[pdqdl]

Well! Things are a lot different in New Jersey, aren't they?

We get audited every year, without fail. Always have, and I imagine that we always will, too. All the contractors that I know are always audited, too.

The audit really isn't too much of an invasion. The auditor sets an appointment, shows up, then looks at your payroll for the whole year, asks some questions, pokes around a little for something to be wrong, then leaves.

It is nothing like an IRS audit; the insurance company just wants to make sure that you understand that they are not doing business on the "honor system". And they WILL send you a bill for any errors or irregularities that they find.

 

[mikewhite85]

So this has been my first year with workers comp. Not entirely sure what to expect when I get an audit. I assume that audits will be yearly in California. Thankfully, my payroll isn't really high because I only work on weekends, typically with only one groundie, who usually nets between 200-300 a weekend.

I have subbed a climber once (another AS member) to help me out on a job. If you are only subbing an individual, he has to have his own w/c? This applies even when you have them fill out a w9 and go through payroll?

Sorry for my ignorance. I am still pretty new to the whole thing.

 

[treeclimber101]

Well! Things are a lot different in New Jersey, aren't they?

We get audited every year, without fail. Always have, and I imagine that we always will, too. All the contractors that I know are always audited, too.

The audit really isn't too much of an invasion. The auditor sets an appointment, shows up, then looks at your payroll for the whole year, asks some questions, pokes around a little for something to be wrong, then leaves.

It is nothing like an IRS audit; the insurance company just wants to make sure that you understand that they are not doing business on the "honor system". And they WILL send you a bill for any errors or irregularities that they find.

Jesus Christ you need to relax , all I was saying and not directed to you but I was never audited when I used the payroll company to handle everything , but I just got a letter from NJM that I need to send some tax info and a list of subs if any ... Its a new company too me so maybe doing my own payroll that will be the norm now but I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you , JUST TALKING with ya , so go take a pill and relax...

 

[pdqdl]

I don't think you read me right. I'm not stirring up any trouble, I'm just commenting on the difference in our areas.

It's also possible that the insurance companies have more trust when payroll is done by a separate payroll agency. Quite frankly, I have never heard of someone NOT getting audited. I always thought that it was the normal way of doing business.

 

[treeclimber101]

I don't think you read me right. I'm not stirring up any trouble, I'm just commenting on the difference in our areas.

It's also possible that the insurance companies have more trust when payroll is done by a separate payroll agency. Quite frankly, I have never heard of someone NOT getting audited. I always thought that it was the normal way of doing business.

I am .... Now through the payroll company I didn't , or maybe I should rephrase that and I wasn't directly approached by the payroll or Hartford companies ... Theres always things that my wife would need to provide for them... Maybe we were I dunno , it wasn't til a few years back that I really gave a #### about those things , they were always handled by my wife...

 

[jefflovstrom]

I don't think you read me right. I'm not stirring up any trouble.

He does that sometimes.
Jeff

 

[treeclimber101]

He does that sometimes.
Jeff

Listen Mr.. 80's everyday , I try to speak clear and without antagonizing anyone but its hard for me to understand everything all the time ...

 

[jefflovstrom]

Listen Mr.. 80's everyday , I try to speak clear and without antagonizing anyone but its hard for me to understand everything all the time ...

That is what I would say!
Jeff

ps: it was only in the 70's today.

 

[pdqdl]

True.

But the insurance company could just ask you to mail it or fax it. I suspect that they like to come by the office in person to see how hard you have to work to get the report printed.

If your computer can spit out the report, it is probably not "cooked books". If the accountant/preparer is stammering and mumbling while stalling the audit, because they can't reproduce numbers to match previous reporting: you can bet they will look at every number real close!

 

[ATH]

...I am not saying to do this but you COULD have every worker considered a sub contractor , the only issue with that is if you ever have a W Comp. audit they will ask for a sub list thats where you may get cancelled ..

WC should be the least of your worries if you are calling employees subcontractors. The IRS has a lot to say about classification of workers...
Back payroll taxes and FICA have put more than one company out of business when they thought they were using independent contractors.

 

[treeclimber101]

WC should be the least of your worries if you are calling employees subcontractors. The IRS has a lot to say about classification of workers...
Back payroll taxes and FICA have put more than one company out of business when they thought they were using independent contractors.

I don't have employee subs , but know some guys who do it that way , there is one guy who gets paid as a sub and somehow he will distribute the money to the men ... I have employees nothing shady here ...

 

[treeman75]

I am going to be calling my insurance man tuesday to check on wc. I was wondering if you can get a discounted rate by having mandatory safety meetings. I am thinking its around 19% in Iowa.

 

[cjnspecial]

I am going to be calling my insurance man tuesday to check on wc. I was wondering if you can get a discounted rate by having mandatory safety meetings. I am thinking its around 19% in Iowa.

It's not mandatory and it's really up to the underwriter. The more safety controls you have in place, the more likely the underwriter is to give you discounts though.
PS: make sure the safety meetings document who was there, what was covered, date and sign out sheets.

 

[beastmaster]

Sucks to be a legit company in Calif. But its no garden party being an employee either out here. The Pay scale sucks, mostly due to the high rate o WC.
I'll sit home and watch t.v. before I work for less then 17.00 an hour. I work under the table sometimes for Cash, but then I worry what if I was seriously injured on the job? I am an old school kind of guy. I would never file a claim unless it was really serious, in that case I would be glade for WC. That is what it suppose to be for.
I have known people who hurt them self's playing soccer or some other activity away from work and wait tell they get to work and act like it happened there. The mentality being let my employer pay for my folly. That is stealing same as if you came in with a gun and robbed your employer. If such claims were investigated and prosecuted to the fullest, and those who do it given a stiff prison sentence, rates would go down, and the pay scale would go up I beleave. As it is now at lest in Calif, your chances of getting caught are nearly zero.
I worked for companys who have done the following to off set the high cost of WC. I'm not suggesting any one do this, I'm just saying,
Cash for all over time off the books, bought a truck off one guy and he deducted the payments off the top of what I was owed off the book. One pay scale for climbing, one for when I was out of the tree(hated that) One guy had WC but wouldn't put you on the books unless there was an accident. Then if you were hurt that was your first day. That same guy was blackmailed by a employee for 10,000.00 for an injury the employee got playing ice hockey. We knew he was lying, but he held all the cards(it a 10,000. per employee fine I think for not having WC)
I am currently working on my contractors lic. so my employers won't have to pay WC, but then I have to offset my pay scale to cover my ins.
50% + WC here in Calif. hurts every one but the ins. companys. Giving dishonest employees a free rains to rip off their employers is the problem I believe, and making examples out of rip offs the solution I think. Put the fear of God in those who
feel the need to rip off their employers. WC in theory is great. I like knowing it's there if I am injured and need serous medical attention while hurt on the job. If I was hurt and could never work again, I would be thankful for WC. But it seems it has gotten frivolous and a burden, hurting legit guys who pay it, making a uneven playing field against those who don't, and trickling down to the honest workers in reduce pay.








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