Yet another pole saw thread: There's got to be a better way

[Raymond]

LOL, Murph Repped me for it. He can't be too bad. We all think our way is the best.

Funny, I have hired technical climbers who will take an hour setting up and climbing up and down a tree 3 times when they would sometimes be a lot more productive just gaffing up it old school, natural crotching and using a blakes hitch. I like using new school techniques when they make more sense but when I have a quickie, I'll natural crotch and lower it in a minute instead of taking the time to set up a block or what have you. I try to draw on all of my experience I have learned over the years. Am I going to prune a whole tree with a pole saw? No. Am I going to pull a hanger or prune one limb with a pole saw when it will save me time by not having to climb. Every time. You've got to use common sense and use your head to be productive in this business. I'll take a less technical climber who is more productive over a world class climber trying to earn style points every time. I'm not competing in the worlds competition, I'm trying to make money.

BINGO!

 

[murphy4trees]

Ya, I know what you mean... sometimes it is just faster and easier to put a ladder up and advance the tie in point, than fooling around with the throw line... That is mostly on medium sized trees or times when the throwline gets tangled or stuck, or just keeps missing by a little... To be honest, I rarely use a friction saver and have been using natural crotch rigging a lot more than I used to years ago. I tend to tie into small limbs that don't create a lot of friction. I have the rope guide and a home made friction saver and a sweet rigging block that switches out on a number of slings and also short slings with steel shackles for rigging. I use them when they make sense, though I haven't been climbing a lot of monsters lately... They all seem to get underbid by some desperate company that likes hard work more than making money.

SO I wouldn't identify myself as a new school purist,. and have seen a great competition climber prune a big oak with a leather tube friction saver and whole belt full of gear (that would make batman look like he's traveling light) and tried not to get too judgmental when he took twice or maybe three times as long to prune this thing than Big John or Pat Epps would have. He's not a production arborist and still he did a great job climbing out to every branch tip on a 100' leaning oak with no good center to tie into. Now most climbers couldn't or wouldn't climb like that, and so I gave him credit, yet I know it could have been done a lot faster.

anyhow that is kind of rambling.. the point is not that all the new school gear is either good or bad, or fast or slow, because it all depends on the tree and the climber... AND the same does not go for pole saws. They are generally not fast or efficeint in most suburban tree climbing scenarios.. They often become a crutch that keep climbers from advancing in their climbing skills. You might be better off leaving the pole saw on the ground, tying in higher, planning your routes better and climbing with a bit more confidence, even if you have to fake it for a while. While yo're at it get a Zubat and leave the chainsaw on the ground too.. Then you can really move through a tree (for pruning obviously). Just try it a few times and see if you don't improve your climbing skills!

 

[tree md]

Ya, I know what you mean... sometimes it is just faster and easier to put a ladder up and advance the tie in point, than fooling around with the throw line... That is mostly on medium sized trees or times when the throwline gets tangled or stuck, or just keeps missing by a little... To be honest, I rarely use a friction saver and have been using natural crotch rigging a lot more than I used to years ago. I tend to tie into small limbs that don't create a lot of friction. I have the rope guide and a home made friction saver and a sweet rigging block that switches out on a number of slings and also short slings with steel shackles for rigging. I use them when they make sense, though I haven't been climbing a lot of monsters lately... They all seem to get underbid by some desperate company that likes hard work more than making money.

SO I wouldn't identify myself as a new school purist,. and have seen a great competition climber prune a big oak with a leather tube friction saver and whole belt full of gear (that would make batman look like he's traveling light) and tried not to get too judgmental when he took twice or maybe three times as long to prune this thing than Big John or Pat Epps would have. He's not a production arborist and still he did a great job climbing out to every branch tip on a 100' leaning oak with no good center to tie into. Now most climbers couldn't or wouldn't climb like that, and so I gave him credit, yet I know it could have been done a lot faster.

anyhow that is kind of rambling.. the point is not that all the new school gear is either good or bad, or fast or slow, because it all depends on the tree and the climber... AND the same does not go for pole saws. They are generally not fast or efficeint in most suburban tree climbing scenarios.. They often become a crutch that keep climbers from advancing in their climbing skills. You might be better off leaving the pole saw on the ground, tying in higher, planning your routes better and climbing with a bit more confidence, even if you have to fake it for a while. While yo're at it get a Zubat and leave the chainsaw on the ground too.. Then you can really move through a tree (for pruning obviously). Just try it a few times and see if you don't improve your climbing skills!

I don't use a Zubat, I have a Sugoi (although I sometimes wish I'd opted for the Zubat) and use it anytime I can get away without having to lug the 200T up in the tree. Ive got a handsaw, Big shot, friction saver, Black Diamond hand ascenders, CMI foot ascender, prussic cord, Micro pulleys, caribiners and all the tools I need to get where I need to go in the tree. Funny that you tried to call me on this particular tree because I had shot a line in the tree with my big shot using my new cube for my throw line and was trying a new knot to climb on.

I wouldn't call myself a world class climber but I do know the tricks of the trade. Not that I am knocking technical climbers. I had a very good technical climber come team up with me when we got hit by a big ice storm a little over a year ago. I'd say he is a world class climber. It was TreeBot from this forum for any who cares to know. He is a very good climber and I learned a few tricks from him. One of which was to use a pole saw to advance your climbing line in a tree with a blown out top where it's not possible to shoot a line in a tree. He was very good at technical climbs and I recognized this after the first job we worked together. Wish I could have worked more with him but we had to split up to be efficient. I recognized his talent and put him on my #1 account. A high end condominium complex where they are particular about their tree work. I had to sell him to the powers that be there because they wanted me to do their work but was very happy with him when they saw what he was capable of. I utilized him on a lot of my jobs that entailed spikeless prunes as he is an expert in that area. I am efficient as well but I wouldn't say that I am as efficient as he in that area. I happen to have a lot of experience in aerial lifts, heavy rigging and putting big trees on the ground in tight areas. So I put the Bot on the technical prunes (like the one your world class climber did mentioned above ) and I did the large removals when I wasn't out in front selling. I put JPS (who came down with 2 world class climbers) and his organization on the overflow that I couldn't get to as well as another organization I met through AS. Would have liked to have put a lot more I met from this site on some work but I had my bases covered. My strength is in recognizing other's talent as well as my own, delegating to work as efficiently as I can. I love to climb but that is not my only role. I did what I was best at. I recruited help, recognized their capabilities and talent and utilized them accordingly in my busy time and now I am researching and trying different methods to make myself more efficient while I'm not so busy. Their is always a market for a good technical arborist. I am studying and working to become a better one every day.