How the heck do you pay the bills, down there?

fraidofheights · Jun 16, 2012

Up a tree? Math error means bargain for city | The Journal Gazette

Less than a hundred dollar per trees, and the guy's looks like a bit of a chunker, so how the heck is he ripping up and down trees that quick to make it profitable?

Now, I'm really new to the business, but even here in Canada we don't touch a removal for under five hundred bucks. Is it the illegal immigrant thing, that makes it possible for people to work that cheap?

We've got some issues in the City with companies bringing in Philipino groundman, but they're paid a decent wage (usually starting at 14.00 per hour plus bonuses) and mostly they work for the crappiest tree company in the City. Crappy trucks. Boulevard trimming. All boom work.

Anyway, just curious. Sheesh.

mattfr12 · Jun 16, 2012

fraidofheights said:
Up a tree? Math error means bargain for city | The Journal Gazette

Less than a hundred dollar per trees, and the guy's looks like a bit of a chunker, so how the heck is he ripping up and down trees that quick to make it profitable?

Now, I'm really new to the business, but even here in Canada we don't touch a removal for under five hundred bucks. Is it the illegal immigrant thing, that makes it possible for people to work that cheap?

We've got some issues in the City with companies bringing in Philipino groundman, but they're paid a decent wage (usually starting at 14.00 per hour plus bonuses) and mostly they work for the crappiest tree company in the City. Crappy trucks. Boulevard trimming. All boom work.

Anyway, just curious. Sheesh.

that is super low 100$ per tree even if you got 5 a day done that would still suck. he needs a better calcaulator or accountant. the difference between 500k and 1mil is pretty noticable on paper. i could see 400-600 per tree. on a city tree contract thats pretty common.

Kottonwood · Jun 16, 2012

$586,000/4500 = ~130 per tree.

In order to make money on that you would have to be doing something ridiculously profitable with the wood and mulch.

VA-Sawyer · Jun 16, 2012

4500 trees / 200 working days per year ( 1 year contract ) means he will need to do 22.5 trees per day, unless he works on Sat as well. Might be possible with a big enough chipper if he doesn't have to mess with firewood. I think they are all street trees, so no hauling of brush. Just drop, chip, and maybe load logs to sell to a mill. If he can sell the chips too, he might make $3000 to 3500 per day total. Not great, but should pay the bills, if his equipment holds up. His correct bid would have been worth another $1500 per day. Still not great, but a lot better than the thin ice he is on now.

Bet he will be skinny as a rail this time next year!

Rick

PS Patriot Tree posted while I was typing.

sodbreaker · Jun 16, 2012

Don't hate me, but I'll take trees down for less then $100. Helps to have almost no overhead and a signed and dated waiver from the homeowner that they won't sue me.

Sod Breaker

Garden Of Eden · Jun 16, 2012

sodbreaker said:
Don't hate me, but I'll take trees down for less then $100. Helps to have almost no overhead and a signed and dated waiver from the homeowner that they won't sue me.

Sod Breaker

I'm confused, how does the waiver save you $$?

husabud · Jun 16, 2012

Garden Of Eden said:
I'm confused, how does the waiver save you $$?

If you don't have ins and break all kinds of Shiite up.

Garden Of Eden · Jun 16, 2012

husabud said:
If you don't have ins and break all kinds of Shiite up.

Lol. Was hoping for a similar response from him. Wonder if he knows that won't help all that much.

Ehhh.

Jeff

HappyTreesLLC · Jun 16, 2012

VA-Sawyer said:
4500 trees / 200 working days per year ( 1 year contract ) means he will need to do 22.5 trees per day....

Hey guys,
I am working with state and municipalities. You all thinking of tree as BIG tree. You need to dig into definition of tree accepted in town hall. I believe most of them (town/city hall) definition of tree is 8ft tall AND 2inch diameter or larger. So if you take this to count the picture is better.
From my own experience:
I done "per tree removal" for one town. Lucky me town official was with me to conform quantity. The price was $75 per tree. So I done like 50. Send bill. They paid. Next time they offer me work on "time" basis. LOL.
Sure, $250 per hour - bucket truck, chip truck, Vermeer BC1800XL, 3 guys.
Why not?

So, does this explanation make some sense?

mattfr12 · Jun 16, 2012

The trees all being small is unlikely tho when everyone else is bidding double or triple. not to many weekend warriors can get contracts like that. to much paperwork and 4th hand machinery wouldn't make it through thousands of trees. I've bid as low as 400$ per tree for large trees but was able to knock off a lot of them per day.

400$ per tree was safety pruning a few thousand street trees. and removing a little under 80. during the winter we combined forces with another company and had up to 5 buckets per day on one street. we where bringing in a little over 5g's a day gross. so we profited around 2k a day per company. but it was steady work for months.

arborjockey · Jun 17, 2012

Ahh small street trees. Some 1 cut 1 kill. Chop drop chip? City started taking bids then the word got out its a 1.5 mil. contract. So the local tree dudes had a meeting and put bids in for 1.2 and 1.3. All but 1 tree dude who went home and figured it out on paper. Maybe tis dude has 2 18 wheelers with cranes to load em' and a tub grinder at the house. Dude could be slamming 250 trees a day.

At barttlett we paid a guy something like 15-18k every 3 months to come to our yard and hall off our green waste. Chips, stumps and all. 4 -18 wheelers and a 7 yard loader made it disappear in 4 hours. Sound spendy but they made lots of $ out of that office.

HappyTreesLLC · Jun 18, 2012

Other words it is doable if you know area(scope of work), have right equipment or friends with equipment and work force.
Also good to have place to sale all this biomass or to get rid of it quick.

Usually when I work for town they allow me to pile chips on town's DPW asphalted place. Then I order few semis and town load them with loader. Semis going to place where I sale chips and after paying drivers I getting some money as well. Not much but "some" better then nothing and MUCH better then to pay for removal.

jefflovstrom · Jun 18, 2012

HappyTreesLLC said:
Other words it is doable if you know area(scope of work), have right equipment or friends with equipment and work force.
Also good to have place to sale all this biomass or to get rid of it quick.

Usually when I work for town they allow me to pile chips on town's DPW asphalted place. Then I order few semis and town load them with loader. Semis going to place where I sale chips and after paying drivers I getting some money as well. Not much but "some" better then nothing and MUCH better then to pay for removal.

Too funny!
What channel are you on? LOL!
Jeff :dizzy:

arborjockey · Jun 19, 2012

Jeff,
Was it the

friends with equipment

Watch 3\4 end up being small pear trees

sodbreaker · Jun 19, 2012

Garden Of Eden said:
I'm confused, how does the waiver save you $$?

It means that the home over acknowledges that if he wants someone with ins. he can pay the going rate of 10X an hour more

Kottonwood · Jun 19, 2012

there is no ####ing way the rate is ten times higher. What do you charge? What do you bring to the table? Let's say an eighteen inch chipper, dump, wood trailer, skid steer, and a three man crew. I would be at 75-90 a man hour. You workin' for 7.50 an hour and bringin' that to the table????? ......doubt it

Gotta neg rep ya for that one. buy some ####ing insurance it ain't expensive..... workers comp is, but if you do all the work yourself you don't need that.

lxt · Jun 19, 2012

with a name like sodbreaker I can only think you should stick to grass cutting & if you think a HO signing a waiver eliminates you from responsibility think again!!!

Maybe the home owner should have you sign a waiver so if you get hurt he`s not liable, Jack wagons down my way would do what you are saying to do & then when the one hack got hurt he tried to sue the hO`s insurance company.....what a mess & guess what?

It was ruled that the "hack" (similar to you) solicited business & therefore was legally bound to carry certain insurances & that the waiver was an illegal attempt to try to negate his responsibilities as a business.........does the term "Fraudulent business practices" mean anything & if not you are a serious Hack!!!

LXT...........

jefflovstrom · Jun 19, 2012

sodbreaker said:
It means that the home over acknowledges that if he wants someone with ins. he can pay the going rate of 10X an hour more

So you are a cheap hack and your customer's are dumb homeowner's. Got it.
Jeff

Garden Of Eden · Jun 19, 2012

jefflovstrom said:
So you are a cheap hack and your customer's are dumb homeowner's. Got it.
Jeff

I agree. I hate when people advertise they are the cheapest in town. It means they are worth less than everyone else. Price matching is one thing, if its apples to apples.

Jeff

sodbreaker · Jun 19, 2012

PatriotTreeCO said:
there is no ####ing way the rate is ten times higher. What do you charge? What do you bring to the table? Let's say an eighteen inch chipper, dump, wood trailer, skid steer, and a three man crew. I would be at 75-90 a man hour. You workin' for 7.50 an hour and bringin' that to the table????? ......doubt it

Gotta neg rep ya for that one. buy some ####ing insurance it ain't expensive..... workers comp is, but if you do all the work yourself you don't need that.

I figured someone who have a fit over my remark. If should run across a home owner whose project requires the above mentioned equipment I'll send them your way. In all likely hood they would pay you $100/hour ($10 more then you ask for) Having said that. Most the people I work for would prefer not have an army of machines show up at the end of their drive way(on their dime) just to cut down a couple of trees.

Sod Breaker

ETA:

I will also say that for a "Hack" which one of us gets more business? I have looked into insurance but then I would raise my rates to compensate and HO would hire the next "Hack."

But the thing that bothers most people including the ones who gave a neg rep point is that I cut into their market above all else. I've seen the same in just about every trade.

How the heck do you pay the bills, down there?

Help Support Arborist Forum:

ArboristSite Lurker

The Bulldog

ArboristSite Operative

Addicted to ArboristSite

ArboristSite Operative

ArboristSite Operative

ArboristSite Operative

ArboristSite Operative

ArboristSite Member

The Bulldog

ArboristSite Guru

ArboristSite Member

It was a beautiful day!

ArboristSite Guru

ArboristSite Operative

ArboristSite Operative

Addicted to ArboristSite

It was a beautiful day!

ArboristSite Operative

ArboristSite Operative

Similar threads