661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Flatie]

Yes, the dreaded black drool.. and yes mettalics are a concern, especially since I don't need the capabilities of that oil.

Ok dokes. Why are the mettalics such a concern? dirty? I was leaning toward 800 but I may very well give K2 a crack

 

[bwalker]

the point of the pic is that lucas leaves an oil film behind and i assure you it's not rich LOL there are many that can't properly tune a saw because of worry of things going boom. i'm not one of those people. i tune them lean so they scream. makes a saw more usable IMO. i mean not to lean by any means but even the most tune savy saw hacks wouldn't be able to hear it 4 stroke.

Thw such and such oil is "dry" comments are a bunch of BS IMO.
The amount of residual oil is dictated by the oil ratio your using and at what state the motor was in when it was shut off.
I said your saws appears rich because the exhaust port is bare metal and full of oil. How much run time was on it and what was not run like prior to shut down?

 

[bwalker]

Ok dokes. Why are the mettalics such a concern? dirty? I was leaning toward 800 but I may very well give K2 a crack

Because they lead to buildup, but more importantly they are a great ignition source for pre ignition. Rather not deal with that in something that's not torn down every weekend.

 

[Big_Wood]

Thw such and such oil is "dry" comments are a bunch of BS IMO.
The amount of residual oil is dictated by the oil ratio your using and at what state the motor was in when it was shut off.
I said your saws appears rich because the exhaust port is bare metal and full of oil. How much run time was on it and what was not run like prior to shut down?

i got the saw from a guy here who got it from a tree service in NC. cylinder was toasty but cleaned it up anyways. then was digging through walkers cylinder pile and found this one already ported. didn't even look used and they sold it to me cheap. sold the original cleaned up one for same amount i paid. was a budget build so threw a used piston in and away i went LOL. it's gotta have 25 tanks at least on it since assembly with that cylinder.. i understand what you mean by residual oil dictated by the ratio used but i assure you. it was running 40:1 lucas and was not tuned rich. my judgement is lucas is good oil and i figure even at 50:1 it would lube satisfactory.

 

[Moparmyway]

what state the motor was in when it was shut off.

Lets say that you are running your saw through 30 large bucking rounds.
You finish your last cut.
Do allow your saw to;

A. Idle for a few minutes to cool down, then shut the saw off with the kill switch
B. Rev it up to WOT and shut off the saw with the kill switch
C. Idle for a few minutes, then WOT for a second and while at WOT, shut off the saw with the kill switch
D. Hold WOT through the cut, keep WOT as you pull the saw out of the now cut wood and hit the kill switch while holding WOT
E. Something totally different

 

[nitehawk55]

Way too much attention to brand/type of oil here than need be . If it's a known quality 2 cycle oil suitable for use in saws and other OPE it will work fine at recommended mix ratios . Nothing wrong with adding a bit extra to give a little extra lube under HD use but you don't want to over do it either . If all if right with the engine , carb settings , cooling surfaces then a 40:1-50:1 mix is fine . For those milling I could see bumping it to 32:1 .
The fuel/air mix enters the engine and the oil is distributed through the engine to lube the internal parts . Not rocket science as it's being made out .

 

[redbull660]

Email to Motul... What should I ask him next?

Redbull -

I'm wondering about using the 710 or 800 off road 2t oils in my chainsaw. It's a Stihl 661 91cc 7.5hp runs 13,500 off load WOT and approx 10,000 on load. (in wood) Generally the saw is idling for a little bit and then will run 10 sec-1min long cuts at WOT and then idling for a bit until the next cut. Idle = ~2800rpm.

1. would you recommend 710 or 800 or another motul 2t oil for this application? If so would you suggest a ratio to use?

2. Is there a temp that would be too cold to use my saw at...using 710 or 800? I mix with 92 octane ethanol free
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Motul -

The product I would recommend for your chain saw is our 800 2T off-road. Although as I am sure you are aware 800 2T was not designed for use in chain saws, but it does work very well. The EsterCore package in the 800 2T offers maximum protection for your engine, especially at high RPM's.

The ratio I would recommend would be a 50:1 ratio. If that ratio is a little too rich you can go to a 60:1 ratio. Since it is a Premix only product you can run the ratios a little leaner then an Injector/Premix product like the 710 2T.

As for a temp that would be too cold to use your saw at we do not have an exact degree number. I do know that we have a lot of customers in Canada and other colder regions that use the 800 2T in their chainsaws and snowmobiles without issue. We just recommend that if it is cold outside that you properly warm up your engine before use.
Regards,

Jon Muto
Marketing Coordinator
Motul USA Inc. | 790C Indigo Ct. | Pomona, CA 91767

T 909-625-1292 Ext. 200 | F 909-625-2697 | Cell 909-538-2091

[email protected]|www.motul.com
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Redbull -

I will try some at 50:1. What signs should I look for to know if I should go richer or leaner? I know a few other guys that suggest running 800 at 32:1 in my saw? That seems pretty rich? Would you have any thoughts on going that rich?

The online store I'll be buying 800 from also has 710. Is it worthwhile to try 710? Or is it just not suitable for a saw? What differences if any should I expect to see? What ratio would you recommend for 710?

I see the viscosity of stihl ultra (my current 2t oil) is 8.9 @ 100c' ...I see 800 is around 15. Should I be concerned about this?
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Motul-

The best way to check if the mixture is too lean or too rich would be to look at the spark plug. If the spark plug is dark in color then it is too rich and if the spark plug is a white-ish color it is too lean. The spark plug should be a light brown when running the right mixture.

The 32:1 mixture to me seems pretty rich, especially with the viscosity of our 800 2T premix. That ratio would be better suited for our 710 2T product. I would recommend sticking with our 800 2T product as it will provide more protection for your high RPM saw.

As far as the viscosity of the 800 2T there is no reason to be concerned. The viscosity of the product is the reason why you can run it at a ratio of 50:1 or even leaner. It is thicker because it is a premix only product, not a premix/injector product. Thinning additives are added to a Premix/Injector product so the oil can pass through the injector hoses if used in that application.

The 800 2T burns very clean, your saw engine will thank you.

Regards,

Jon Muto
Marketing Coordinator
Motul USA Inc. | 790C Indigo Ct. | Pomona, CA 91767

T 909-625-1292 Ext. 200 | F 909-625-2697 | Cell 909-538-2091

[email protected]|www.motul.com

 

[Whitespider]

You finish your last cut.
Do allow your saw to;

Ummmm... I just shut it off when I'm done with it... same as everything else (shrug)
*

 

[blsnelling]

Motul -


The ratio I would recommend would be a 50:1 ratio. If that ratio is a little too rich you can go to a 60:1 ratio.

That is a factor of tuning, not mix ratio. The way I understand it, mix ratio should be determined be observing the amount of oil left in the crankcase.

 

[KenJax Tree]

So if the viscosity is higher and you can run a leaner mix,( off road 50:1-60:1) then why do they recommend 33:1-25:1 for Road Racing even though the viscosity is higher than Off Road?

These marketers only know what they read, pretty much like us. If you're not talking to the guy that mixed the formula in the lab you're not gonna get the answers you're looking for.

 

[blsnelling]

So if the viscosity is higher and you can run a leaner mix,( off road 50:1-60:1) then why do they recommend 33:1-25:1 for Road Racing even though the viscosity is higher than Off Road?

Because of its intended market...ultra high RPM road racing motorcycles.

 

[redbull660]

So if the viscosity is higher and you can run a leaner mix,( off road 50:1-60:1) then why do they recommend 33:1-25:1 for Road Racing even though the viscosity is higher than Off Road?

These marketers only know what they read, pretty much like us. If you're not talking to the guy that mixed the formula in the lab you're not gonna get the answers you're looking for.

I would imagine it has something to do with higher heat generated. Just like with a ported saw. Ported saw generates more heat so you need more oil.

I think a lot of guys have thought that it was the extra force and extra compression that required more oil. But every one of these oil guys i've asked "does porting the saw require more oil?" has said if your porting, your opening things up thus your allowing more gas into the system and thus more oil so you really don't need it. However, you are generating more heat and so you do probably need more oil. And that is what people have found is adding more oil to the ported saws alleviates the breakage problems.

That is a factor of tuning, not mix ratio. The way I understand it, mix ratio should be determined be observing the amount of oil left in the crankcase.

Well if you guys want me to ask him something... Come up with some questions. Out of all the people I've emailed and called, this Motul guy (Jon) and Andrew at Belray seem to be the only people who actually really know a thing or two.


Here is my next question for him:

why would 800 provide more protection over 710? And in theory would/should that hold true even if 710 was run at 32:1 and 800 was run at 50:1?

 

[blsnelling]

I would imagine it has something to do with higher heat generated. Just like with a ported saw. Ported saw generates more heat so you need more oil.

I would suspect it has more to do with the RPMs they turn, and the effects that has on oil migration from the bottom end.

 

[Flatie]

I would imagine it has something to do with higher heat generated. Just like with a ported saw. Ported saw generates more heat so you need more oil.

I think a lot of guys have thought that it was the extra force and extra compression that required more oil. But every one of these oil guys i've asked "does porting the saw require more oil?" has said if your porting, your opening things up thus your allowing more gas into the system and thus more oil so you really don't need it. However, you are generating more heat and so you do probably need more oil. And that is what people have found is adding more oil to the ported saws alleviates the breakage problems.




Well if you guys want me to ask him something... Come up with some questions. Out of all the people I've emailed and called, this Motul guy (Jon) and Andrew at Belray seem to be the only people who actually really know a thing or two.


Here is my next question for him:

why would 800 provide more protection over 710? And in theory would/should that hold true even if 710 was run at 32:1 and 800 was run at 50:1?

Yes tell him you've heard that the metallics in 800 off road lead to buildup... and as such would cause a great ignition source for pre ignition.
Has he heard of this?
Why is 800 not jaso -fd approved?

 

[redbull660]

I would suspect it has more to do with the RPMs they turn, and the effects that has on oil migration from the bottom end.

that would be a good question to ask of andrew @ belray and this Jon @ motul.

...does porting a saw require more oil because the higher RPM's generate more heat? Or because the higher RPM's effects the oil migration from the bottom end?

 

[porsche965]

I would suspect it has more to do with the RPMs they turn, and the effects that has on oil migration from the bottom end.

Both.

 

[blsnelling]

Just for reference,it's not uncommon for a ported with saw to see 12K in the cut.

 

[Moparmyway]

Yes tell him you've heard that the metallics in 800 off road lead to buildup... and as such would cause a great ignition source for pre ignition.

I am curious about that as well ................ although in everything that I have run 800 off road in, there MUST be a problem as I dont see any buildup and havent had any pre-ignition problems yet. I wonder how much longer I can run it before these problems develop

 

[blsnelling]

Both.

What's up John?

 

[porsche965]

Just trying to learn something is all