CBN Wheels with Pictures

Carlyle · Jun 19, 2009

I would like to post some pictures of the wheels that I currently have on hand. I have been round grinding chains for a number of years. To date the wheel that I like best is a US Diamond 5-7/8 diameter X 3/16 width X 7/8 arbor. For use with the
Italian grinders (Tecomate, Oregon 511, Efco, Speed Sharp) and I think the China models like Northern Tool but I have no experience with them. I use a wheel Profile of 1FF1 that I believe most wheels are based on. I have used wheels that range from 60-120 grit and would have to say that I believe the higher grits do a better job all the way around. I will try to explain the rest with pictures if possible. All the pictures were taking with my cell phone, so give me a break. I am sending the wheels to Brad for a second opinion in a couple of days. The first picture is of some the wheels that I have on hand.

From left to right:
1. Oregon 5 3/4 X 1/4 X 7/8" for depth gauges.
2. US Diamond Resin Bonded CBN 80 Grit 5 1/2 X 1/8 X7/8
3. (2) Foley Belsaw CBN Plated 60 Grit 5-3/4 X 3/16 X 7/8
4. (2) US Diamond Wheel Resin Bonded CBN 80 Grit 5 1/2 X 3/16 X 7/8
5. US Diamond Wheel CBN Plated 120 Grit 5 7/8 X 3/16 X 7/8 with coolant holes(Cyclone)

Profile of the Cyclone

Difference in height

Difference in thickness of plated material on wheels

TDunk · Jun 19, 2009

I was actually going to start a thread on this today, but you beat me to it. I just bought a grinder (Northern Tool) and have been wondering what would be a good wheel to up grade too. I don't do a whole lot of chains, so i don't need the best of the best, but i don't want cheap either. Got any suggestions ?

Carlyle · Jun 19, 2009

Next are a couple of pictures of a cutter to be sharpened and the end result with the wheels.

60 grit

80 grit (but acts like a hundred because it is bonded)

120 grit

-120 grit plated leaves a smoother finish than the rest

-80 grit bonded resin acts like a 100 grit plated

-I like more plating wrapped on to the side of a wheel

-All wheels seem to cut at the same pace, but I grind slow anyways. (If you were to ask before I would have said the 60 grit should remove material faster with less heat but I have found no difference.

-I will give no estimates to how long they will last because there are too many variables.

-Once you wear out a bonded wheel it is done and a plated wheel can be replated for half the cost of new.
-Plated wheels are much heavier than the aluminum core resin bonded. I would suggest having your grinder well anchored and your bench also. I know of one gentleman that doesn’t like the cyclone wheel because it shakes the hell out of his bench.

Carlyle · Jun 19, 2009

More pictures and how I do my depth gauges.

Cleaning supplies

Plated wheels get cleaned with Brake clean and a brass brush.

White stick is for the bonded wheels

Grey block is for making the depth gauge wheel

Profile of Oregon wheel

Gaugit Tool with .25 on DG

Wheel placement

Finished product

super3 · Jun 19, 2009

You have a pretty good phone cam.

Carlyle · Jun 19, 2009

Blackberry Storm is the cell phone. I know that this post is a little jumbled but I was try'n to post it in a hurry. I hope that Brad S will be able to put a different spin on this once he gets the wheels. The cyclone wheel delivered to me cost about $128.

super3 · Jun 19, 2009

The pics blown up like that makes the cutting edge look really ruff.

Shagbark · Jun 19, 2009

FYI, The CBN wheels can be replated when they wear thin as long as the steel blank is not damaged. You can specify: grit size the geometry (wrap radius) and the concentration of abrasive. A strip and replate will be less than new.
PM me if you want a company contact to do this.

blsnelling · Jun 19, 2009

Wow. I knew you had some wheels to try, but had no idea you were into it this seriously. Thankfully I buy once-used 24" chains for $5/each. I may be grinding up a few checking these out, lol. I'll be sure to post my findings.

Carlyle · Jun 20, 2009

Brad,
I assume when you say 24" you are referencing to 84 drive links(dl), which has become pretty common for me lately. It works well on the TW 660. I have the ported 361's to act like a 660, but I just keep using the 660. One of these days I will get old like you

oke: and stop carrying the 660 but for now it sure is fun. As long as I make it to town the wheels ship today. I have a couple more wheels but this should give you a good idea. I have more on order right now also, try'n different things. Foley makes a 120 but I only have the 60 for now.

Gotta run

SteveH · Jun 20, 2009

New grinder user here: so, how do you guys dress and shape the wheel profile to fit the chain? Do it by sight, lower the wheel toward the tooth to check it as you dress?

If there's an obvious way and I look like an idiot, I can handle that. The grinder came with a dressing stone but no instuctions about exactly how to decide it's shaped properly.

In another recent post, someone referred to a plastic or metal plate with profiles for various chains. If that's the answer, where the heck do you get one, I haven't ever seen, or at least noticed, them around.

Veteran · Jun 20, 2009

Carlyle said:
Brad,
I assume when you say 24" you are referencing to 84 drive links(dl), which has become pretty common for me lately. It works well on the TW 660. I have the ported 361's to act like a 660, but I just keep using the 660. One of these days I will get old like youoke: and stop carrying the 660 but for now it sure is fun. As long as I make it to town the wheels ship today. I have a couple more wheels but this should give you a good idea. I have more on order right now also, try'n different things. Foley makes a 120 but I only have the 60 for now.

Gotta run

You may want to get your wheels replated for about 60% less than a new wheel also maybe a 80-120, 60-80 blend mixed or blended are common in the industry.Check under diamond wheels the price will be on % of matrix in mix 10% much less than 60% also how many chains will you be sharpening.Fallers can save a ton of time and money with a good diamond whl homeowner save your money.

Carlyle · Jun 20, 2009

Veteran said:
You may want to get your wheels replated for about 60% less than a new wheel also maybe a 80-120, 60-80 blend mixed or blended are common in the industry.Check under diamond wheels the price will be on % of matrix in mix 10% much less than 60% also how many chains will you be sharpening.Fallers can save a ton of time and money with a good diamond whl homeowner save your money.

Veteran,
I am aware of the cost savings for replated wheels, it cuts my cost by about 50%. What do you feel are the advantages are of a blended mixture? I personally can't tell the difference between 60 and 120 when cutting wood with the chain. 120 just gives a tad bit more of a smoother finish but nothing to write home about and that only last so long until I hit it with a hand file. Not sure I understand the part about

Veteran said:
"price will be on % of matrix in mix 10% much less than 60%"

Anyways I sharpen several hundred chains a year if that helps. Also so we don't want too muddy the waters, when you say diamond, I assume you mean CBN. I don't want new guys thinking that they are the same, they are not(use the search function for new guys).
I guess everybody has their own opinion, but I believe the home owner could use a CBN wheel for $130. At the cost of $10 a pop around here to have a chain sharpened, I say it is worth it or they wouldn't have bought the grinder in the first place. Some places do work cheaper say 5 dollars a chain, but I would say they are using electrofused crystallized aluminum oxide(AO) wheels that cost $20 anyways. I think the AO wheels produce way more heat and lose their profile in no time, justifying the CBN, but that is another thread

Carlyle · Jun 20, 2009

SteveH said:
New grinder user here: so, how do you guys dress and shape the wheel profile to fit the chain? Do it by sight, lower the wheel toward the tooth to check it as you dress?

If there's an obvious way and I look like an idiot, I can handle that. The grinder came with a dressing stone but no instuctions about exactly how to decide it's shaped properly.

In another recent post, someone referred to a plastic or metal plate with profiles for various chains. If that's the answer, where the heck do you get one, I haven't ever seen, or at least noticed, them around.

There isn't a way to dress or reshape the plated wheels, thats one of the advantages to them, they are consistent in shape. Only maintenance is cleaning and I think brake clean works well.
The wheels you reference are the AO wheels that come with most of the grinders. They are dressed/shaped with the silicon carbide dressing bricks and yes the plastic guides like this help.

I will write more but gotta run!(Actually unload hay)

blsnelling · Jul 1, 2009

Carlyle was kind enough to send me three of these wheels to try out. Here's what I told him in a PM earlier today.

I tried all three wheels out today. I used one right after the other on three 84DL 3/8 Stihl RSC chains. The all do a great job. The one with 120 grit does put a little smoother finish on the chain, but it grinds slower and builds up a little more heat. Nothing like a stone wheel though. The 60 grit Foley cuts the fastest, but is also the coarsest. It rings quite a bit and leaves the most burr. I see what you're saying about the compound not going up as far on the side of the wheel. I think the other wheels leave less burr because it stays in contact with the compound. I could see the burr partially go away with the other two wheels as the side of the wheel dressed it.

I like the 80 grit Cyclone wheel best. It's a good compromise in grit and doesn't ring like the Foley wheel. I can't believe the wind it generates. I'd possibly pick the Foley wheel second. It just grinds a lot faster than the fine grit wheel and generates a little less heat. It doesn't seem to put any more heat into the cutter than the Cyclone wheel. All of these wheels do a great job and are a huge step up from a stone wheel. No more pecking at the cutter to keep from over heating it. Just grind the cutter in one stroke and you're done.

Paul61 · Jul 1, 2009

Carl,

Some durn good detail on the pics. I can clearly see the cut & break on the groove of the stamped raker gauge.............& I didn't need my illuminated magnifier!!!!
Good info too, excellent post. :cheers:

kstill361 · Jul 2, 2009

Carlyle said:
Blackberry Storm is the cell phone. I know that this post is a little jumbled but I was try'n to post it in a hurry. I hope that Brad S will be able to put a different spin on this once he gets the wheels. The cyclone wheel delivered to me cost about $128.

Where did you get your cyclone wheel at for that price? I have the 3/16 for 3/8 and would like to get the 1/8 for .325. I paid $180 at Baileys over a year ago before the price went up to $230. These wheels are awsome!

fishercat · Jul 3, 2009

i'd like to get one of the Cyclones.

i have a Stihl HOS grinder.i'll have to measure the arbor.

Carlyle · Jul 3, 2009

kstill361,
Not sure that I can advertise where the wheels are coming from since they are not a sponsor, but the information is in the post or can be had in different messaging formats :clap:

. I am not looking to get banned just yet, but I am sure my day is coming.

fishercat,
I can have the wheels made for any arbor if you wish and grit. That is what’s nice about them, "Made your way" like Burger King.

As a disclaimer I(Carlyle)do not work for a wheel company and am making Zero profit/benefit from this info

I am just try'n to help the average AS member. Once you try a CBN wheel you won't use a stone or AO wheel again!(I think) unless you are stubborn.

Carlyle

Wishie22 · Jul 3, 2009

When you send your disk in for replating you can have them plate further up the wheel so the cutting surface stays in contact with the chain cutter, this may heat up the metal more since the contact area will be greater. CBN is allot cheaper material than diamond to have applied to parts, and is better suited for certain types of material being cut.

As for the grit size it is based on scales as sandpaper, 120 fine grit and will collect debree in between the particles compared to 60 coarse grit that will cut through the same material faster removing material faster (larger pieces of the product being cut)

For a brief time I did CBN and Diamond plating, interesting job machining and chemistry. Had chemical reactions to the chemicals used, was offered a large increase to stay but had to leave do to health issues. Sucks since I moved up fast and was responsible for replating critical material like Areospace cutting wheels. Should give them a call on how much for replating files.

CBN Wheels with Pictures

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