036 Build Projects, Crank, Bearings, Carbs etc etc

[joshhigham]

Hey you finally posted something instead of lurking!

Lurker, Voyeur Whatever. Kinda waiting to come out with something very profound as a first post, so people would think I was smart or something... Kinda blew that.
I am seriously contemplating dragging my red-headed stepchild of a saw down to your place and seeing what a Stihl man can come up with on an echo.
Still got the 455?

 

[CWME]

Do you have one pro saw and one non-pro? A lot of the parts are different. It will be a little frustrating when you put them back together. Tell us as you go, how much difference you find.

Well what I have noticed so far is the muffler and carbs are a little different. As Pogo said parts were updated over time. The IPL I was given lists all the 036 pro/non pro with the same part #s for most stuff. I took the carb I got with the 036 non pro and put that on the pro. I think it was actually from a pro to begin with anyway. Carb models are different. Think one is a zamma 31 and the other is a 39. Muffler that came with the non pro 036 has a flange to hold the top of the front cover instead of two bolts.
Other than the lack of a decomp on one cylinder I really don't see much difference in the parts.

 

[CWME]

working on a ms360, watching and stealing ideas.

Steal away! Please share any tools etc that you come up with. I am learning on the fly myself.

 

[joshhigham]

Like the parts Washer.

 

[CWME]

Yes sir! I'm watching carefully as I also have two on my bench in similar states that are my current projects. Fortunately, the cranks both seem cool. Bearings are another story on one with the other one being about halfway rebuilt by another member here before I got it from him.

Poge

Post up what you use for splitting the cases and then putting them back together. Be neat to see how each of us come up with a solution.

Working on a puller for the flywheel side of the case to pull the crank through the bearing. Thinking something like my flywheel puller but on a larger scale. The center bolt will be threaded for the crank like the Stihl tool. Instead of pressing it pulls. Guessing a
1" pipe and a pipe flange on the end to go against the case. Will probably true it up on the lathe.

 

[CWME]

Ahh well your posting now so welcome to the madness Something to play with anyway so bring her down.

Gave the 455 Rancher to my Cousin. Big step up from his little Craftsman saw so he is happy with it. I modded it a bit so it really is a decent firewood saw. Should serve him well.

Lurker, Voyeur Whatever. Kinda waiting to come out with something very profound as a first post, so people would think I was smart or something... Kinda blew that.
I am seriously contemplating dragging my red-headed stepchild of a saw down to your place and seeing what a Stihl man can come up with on an echo.
Still got the 455?

 

[joshhigham]

Would chilling the crank and heating the bearing or vice versa work?

 

[parrisw]

Would chilling the crank and heating the bearing or vice versa work?

Yes, you'd want to freeze the crank and heat the bearing.

 

[joshhigham]

Just dont tell anyone here that the 670 cut faster than the 455. Even though there is a 12cc difference, there is no way the Echo should have cut quicker with their shoddy engineering and poor design. otstir:

 

[CWME]

Would chilling the crank and heating the bearing or vice versa work?

Going to heat the cases to get the bearings in. I am not too excited about heating the bearings up. If I can fab up the puller then I want to go that route to be on the safe side. The Stihl tool pulls the crank into the bearing. Going to use the clutch carier to pull that side in. I am going to cut different sections of pipe and progressively pull the cases together. I would make a puller for this side but a left hand metric tap is over $100. Be better off buying the Stihl tool for the clutch side if I can't get the nut idea to work.

 

[parrisw]

If ya have a wood stove set the case's on that with the bearings in, the crank will slide right it.

 

[joshhigham]

Going to heat the cases to get the bearings in. I am not too excited about heating the bearings up. If I can fab up the puller then I want to go that route to be on the safe side. The Stihl tool pulls the crank into the bearing. Going to use the clutch carier to pull that side in. I am going to cut different sections of pipe and progressively pull the cases together. I would make a puller for this side but a left hand metric tap is over $100. Be better off buying the Stihl tool for the clutch side if I can't get the nut idea to work.

If you heat the bearing up just dont heat them past operating temp, My guess would be somewhere in the range of the cyl. head operating temp give or take. ~160-200 ish???
My thoughts behind this being the bearings would withstand around this temp as the head has cooling fins and can cool down, but the block and rotating assy, after being run would get near this temp with heat soak and no cooling effect to speak of.
Someone please correct me if my logic is flawed.

 

[Jacob J.]

There's been some discussion in this thread about differences between 034s (early and late) 036s (early and late) 036 Pro, and so on.

There's been many, many changes to the 034/036/036 Pro saws which IPLs don't show. The thing to keep in mind about the IPLs is that
they are done by a third party contracted by Stihl using information supplied by Stihl's technical and marketing divisions, which don't always match.
I'm attaching some technical bulletins which illustrate some of the changes.

View attachment 216802View attachment 216804

 

[Jacob J.]

View attachment 216805View attachment 216806

 

[CWME]

Makes sense that some heat within reason should be fine. But if I go that route I won't get to make the tools:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Jacob J.]

There's about 31 technical bulletins issued on the 034/036/036 Pro series since it was introduced.

View attachment 216807View attachment 216808

 

[CWME]

Thanks for posting those Jacob!

 

[Jacob J.]

Going to heat the cases to get the bearings in. I am not too excited about heating the bearings up. If I can fab up the puller then I want to go that route to be on the safe side. The Stihl tool pulls the crank into the bearing. Going to use the clutch carier to pull that side in. I am going to cut different sections of pipe and progressively pull the cases together. I would make a puller for this side but a left hand metric tap is over $100. Be better off buying the Stihl tool for the clutch side if I can't get the nut idea to work.

Be careful using heat to get the bearings seated in the case halves. If you're going to do it, then your best bet is to use a conventional cooking oven and set it
at 150 degrees F. Let the case halves warm for about ten minutes. Use a very light coating of oil on the seat and you can gently tap the bearing in with a small
hammer. The Stihl tool is a sort of large drift block used with either an arbor press or to tap the bearing in using the described method.

If you heat the bearing up just dont heat them past operating temp, My guess would be somewhere in the range of the cyl. head operating temp give or take. ~160-200 ish???
My thoughts behind this being the bearings would withstand around this temp as the head has cooling fins and can cool down, but the block and rotating assy, after being run would get near this temp with heat soak and no cooling effect to speak of.
Someone please correct me if my logic is flawed.

The bearings in a running saw really don't get that hot, because they have the cooling effect of the incoming fresh charge which mixes in the crankcase.
At one of our technical update meetings years ago, the regional technical specialist for Stihl said that the bearings in the MS-260 were running at average
temp. of around 125-140 degrees F (cutting at room temp.) but would get hotter in more demanding cutting situations, like hot weather or running a dull chain.

 

[CWME]

Be careful using heat to get the bearings seated in the case halves. If you're going to do it, then your best bet is to use a conventional cooking oven and set it
at 150 degrees F. Let the case halves warm for about ten minutes. Use a very light coating of oil on the seat and you can gently tap the bearing in with a small
hammer. The Stihl tool is a sort of large drift block used with either an arbor press or to tap the bearing in using the described method.



The bearings in a running saw really don't get that hot, because they have the cooling effect of the incoming fresh charge which mixes in the crankcase.
At one of our technical update meetings years ago, the regional technical specialist for Stihl said that the bearings in the MS-260 were running at average
temp. of around 125-140 degrees F (cutting at room temp.) but would get hotter in more demanding cutting situations, like hot weather or running a dull chain.

Good info Jacob, Thank you! I have a small convection oven to heat the cases up in. I also have an arbor press that I can use to keep things straight going in. Gentle and slow is my plan with this.

 

[joshhigham]

Be careful using heat to get the bearings seated in the case halves. If you're going to do it, then your best bet is to use a conventional cooking oven and set it
at 150 degrees F. Let the case halves warm for about ten minutes. Use a very light coating of oil on the seat and you can gently tap the bearing in with a small
hammer. The Stihl tool is a sort of large drift block used with either an arbor press or to tap the bearing in using the described method.



The bearings in a running saw really don't get that hot, because they have the cooling effect of the incoming fresh charge which mixes in the crankcase.
At one of our technical update meetings years ago, the regional technical specialist for Stihl said that the bearings in the MS-260 were running at average
temp. of around 125-140 degrees F (cutting at room temp.) but would get hotter in more demanding cutting situations, like hot weather or running a dull chain.

Thank you.
I really appreciate the info. I did not take into account the mix cooling them down that much. Also they are part of a fairly good size heat sink, AKA the block.