sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
hmm...looks like i should have kept my BB kit and played with it more...the next saw i build is gonna get the works..ported, milled cylinder and pop-up....but with it be a BB or oem???? now that is the question!!
066 Magnum Big Bore Project
- Thread starter blsnelling
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
I pulled the 066 BB jug last night and ported it. I no longer have the stellar opinion of the kit that I had.
First of all, there was some light almuminum transfer from the side of the piston in the ring land area, not from the skirt. I really believe this was a toleranc issue because I could feel "something" when I put it together originally. The aluminum cleaned right up off the lining and I simply polished the piston. You could hardly even see where it was on the piston and there was no damage to the rings. Quite odd actually. The saw had definately not run lean.
Second, the lining is VERY prone to chipping. I've never had a Mahle cylinder even try to chip, so this was all new to me. I'd heard of chipping chrome, but never seen it. For this reason, I didn't even polish the exhaust port after porting it for fear of chipping. I have one TINY chip on the top corner of my exhaust port. I don't know if it's going to be an issue or not. From the factory, the chrome wraps around the cylinder wall into the port. After porting, the chrome has been cut right at the cylinder wall. Will this begin to peel as the port tucks the ring back in during use. Only time will tell. I have bolted the cylinder back down and pulled t over very quickly. It feel fine. I just don't know what kind of longevity I'm going to get out of this thing.
So, with these two issues, I don't know if I'd reccomend the BB kit for either the stock replacement of the engine porter. If the are sufficient tolerance issues that cause aluminum transfer, it's not even a good bolt on replacment. And I can't see a reputable engine builder being very excited about the chrome chipping. Maybe it's not a longevity issue. Time will tell as I will use this saw as intended, working it hard.
I'll post some pics fo my work tonight.
First of all, there was some light almuminum transfer from the side of the piston in the ring land area, not from the skirt. I really believe this was a toleranc issue because I could feel "something" when I put it together originally. The aluminum cleaned right up off the lining and I simply polished the piston. You could hardly even see where it was on the piston and there was no damage to the rings. Quite odd actually. The saw had definately not run lean.
Second, the lining is VERY prone to chipping. I've never had a Mahle cylinder even try to chip, so this was all new to me. I'd heard of chipping chrome, but never seen it. For this reason, I didn't even polish the exhaust port after porting it for fear of chipping. I have one TINY chip on the top corner of my exhaust port. I don't know if it's going to be an issue or not. From the factory, the chrome wraps around the cylinder wall into the port. After porting, the chrome has been cut right at the cylinder wall. Will this begin to peel as the port tucks the ring back in during use. Only time will tell. I have bolted the cylinder back down and pulled t over very quickly. It feel fine. I just don't know what kind of longevity I'm going to get out of this thing.
So, with these two issues, I don't know if I'd reccomend the BB kit for either the stock replacement of the engine porter. If the are sufficient tolerance issues that cause aluminum transfer, it's not even a good bolt on replacment. And I can't see a reputable engine builder being very excited about the chrome chipping. Maybe it's not a longevity issue. Time will tell as I will use this saw as intended, working it hard.
I'll post some pics fo my work tonight.
A few more porting details. There was only a moddest amount of room for widening the exhaust port. Also, the port is quite square as it comes from the factory. I really liked it's shape. So, not much room for improvement there. With that said, I was able to widen it enough for some modest gains.
The intake port was a different story. There was a LOT of room for widening it. It's shape was also good, similiar to the exhaust.
I tapered the lower transfers as I would a Mahle cylinder.
I didn't not touch the upper transfers for fear of the chipping issue. Normally I would have angled them back towards the intake a little more, but I chose not to take the risk for such a small change.
The piston is HEAVY DUTY. I don't have a gram scale, but I suspect it's quite heavy. I was able to remove a fair amount of material around the windows and flowed and angled the back side of the windows.
Again, I'll post pics tonight.
The intake port was a different story. There was a LOT of room for widening it. It's shape was also good, similiar to the exhaust.
I tapered the lower transfers as I would a Mahle cylinder.
I didn't not touch the upper transfers for fear of the chipping issue. Normally I would have angled them back towards the intake a little more, but I chose not to take the risk for such a small change.
The piston is HEAVY DUTY. I don't have a gram scale, but I suspect it's quite heavy. I was able to remove a fair amount of material around the windows and flowed and angled the back side of the windows.
Again, I'll post pics tonight.
Grande Dog
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
Howdy,
I'm concerned with what you've found after opening back up. The main concern is the flaking. We changed these to a NiSi coating from chrome and there is no way it should flake. Do you have a BB 066 kit or the BBN 066 kit? We stand behind these and really want them to be as good as possible. If it's not to late, can you supply some pix?
Gregg
I'm concerned with what you've found after opening back up. The main concern is the flaking. We changed these to a NiSi coating from chrome and there is no way it should flake. Do you have a BB 066 kit or the BBN 066 kit? We stand behind these and really want them to be as good as possible. If it's not to late, can you supply some pix?
Gregg
I ordered less than a month ago. It was advertised as having NiSi and had the newer coated piston. I did not keep my receipt. Obviously, I voded my warrantee anyway last night
Perhaps you can look it up under Bradley D. Snelling. I did take a pic of the one chip I had to leave in y work. It chipped several times as I was doing the porting but the rest of the chips were removed as I widened the port. I'll post pics this evening. I appreciate the dialog and your attitude that has always been one to encourage an honest presentation of your product.
Last edited:
Gumnuts
ArboristSite Guru
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 841
- Reaction score
- 136
Rep for you Greg - 1/ Made me want to buy one
2/ You're people with integrity - thanks
ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE WHAT YOUR UP TO BRAD-LOOK FORWARD TO PICS TOO
sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
i learned the hard way that a cylinder flaking will post a P&C...my 066 is back apart
but man did it run good!!
but man did it run good!!
Here are the pics. I'll post the porting work and then the chip pics. Keep in mind that this is not a bleeding edge racesaw, this is a work saw. This is basically what I do with all my port jobs and those of you that have seen them run know it works.
Window, before and after.
Inside top of window. Make it flow.
Bridge.
Window, before and after.
Inside top of window. Make it flow.
Bridge.
Here's the port work. This P&C has only had maybe one tank of fuel through it.
Exhaust Port
Intake Port
Transfer lowers before and after
Chip. Notice the bottom left corner. There also appears to be flaking along the roof of the port as well (it's upside down)
Chip closeup. Worry about the resolution. I had already deleted the original before cropping.
Exhaust Port
Intake Port
Transfer lowers before and after
Chip. Notice the bottom left corner. There also appears to be flaking along the roof of the port as well (it's upside down)
Chip closeup. Worry about the resolution. I had already deleted the original before cropping.
Last edited:
Dennis Cahoon
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brad.....When you ported this cylinder all you did was grind out the chamfer. Try rechamfering it with craytex in a fordom or dremel. It should clean up....but if not, have them give you a new one.
sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
not trying to derail this thread!!
not trying to derails this thread..just wanting to add to it..i recently had a similiar problem with an OEM cylinder that i ported...it felt like the chamfer was good....but was this caused by the rings catching and chipping the coating. I did remove the lining that extended up into the port and smooth everything out...did the lining coming to an end at the port allow for the rings to catch and chip
not trying to derails this thread..just wanting to add to it..i recently had a similiar problem with an OEM cylinder that i ported...it felt like the chamfer was good....but was this caused by the rings catching and chipping the coating. I did remove the lining that extended up into the port and smooth everything out...did the lining coming to an end at the port allow for the rings to catch and chip
You are correct that I did not change the port timing at all. All I did was widen the ports. There was a rough spot on the roof of the port that I cleaned up. In doing so, the chrome chipped. After porting I dress the edge of the port with a fine stone. I then go over it again with a "rubberized" stone. NOt sure what it is, but it's much softer and finer than a stone and it basically polishes the edge.
So far so good. I finished putting it together and tuned it up. She tuned to 14,400, which is 700 higher than before. Afterwards I removed the muffler cover and the piston looks perfect so far. We'll have to see how it holds up in real use.
siILlogger, the edge of your ports do look aweful sharp. Of course, it's hard to tell in a pic. I would guess that yours was an issue of catching a ring, rather than a problem with flaking chrome.
sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
that is pretty much the conclusion that i'm thinking as well..now that ive had some time to look at it. i didn't have a real good way of chamfering the bottom of the exhaust port(couldn't get the dremel in there)well...now ive got something to make sure i DON'T do next go around
So, to those of you that have experience with this, what do you think the chance of this P&C surviving are? I've removed all sharp edges on the ports as I always do. No matter how much bevel I put on there, there's still the edge of the chrome on the cylinder wall. I'm just concerned that this lining will flake and peel. I've cut the lining on many Mahle cylinders without issue. This linning is certainly different though.
Grande Dog
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
It's hard to tell from the pix but, the silver color of the cylinder lining sure looks like the chrome coating. The NiSi has a reddish tint to it. I checked your order and it should have been the NiSi version. Sorry for the mix up. I'll head another kit out to you right away. Looks like we shipped the last one by mail. Will that work for you again, or would you prefer another method?
Dennis Cahoon
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brad.....Nothing too lose now.....Give'er a real port job!
Those rubberized stones you talked of are the craytex rolls I was talking about.....but....you should do a more even and better job chamfering the top and bottom edges of the ports.
Mail is fine. Wow. I'm setting here in a state of shock. Right here is why you should buy your stuff from Baileys. They recognized some issues with the chrome and decided they wanted better for their customers. The NiSi was part of my decision to go with the BB kit, so I really appreciate this.
So now I have nothing to loose. Nothing like having a backup P&C to work on while I wait for this one the die. I hope to get to use it next week. I can't thank you enough.
Last edited:
Normally I would have, but I didn't want to cut anymore chrome. I was petrified the whole time I was working on it that I was going to take a big chip out of the chrome and for sure have a piece of garbage. I decided on what I thought was the lesser of two evils. Most of that port roof is untouched. Where you see the peeling is where that rough spot was.
