460 bogging in willow.
- Thread starter wdchuck
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wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
That price is good to hear, where'd be a good place to shop for one?
Probably small engine specific?
On starting, cold, it sure smokes pretty good, is that a side effect of the richer settings, it goes away pretty quick.
Probably small engine specific?
On starting, cold, it sure smokes pretty good, is that a side effect of the richer settings, it goes away pretty quick.
Just make sure it has a Shrader valve at the engine end, so the hose volume isn't a factor, and pull the rope til it quits going up. Normally at least 5 or 6 pulls to top out. Many testers sold at auto parts stores do have the correct Shrader valve, but some do not. If you get a ridiculously low or high number, try to test your gauge against a known good one before tearing the saw apart.
Tree Sling'r
Addicted to ArboristSite
If your saw has nothing more than a muffler mod I will agree that the 14s is too high. But, if you have a decent woods mod, 14 is not a prob.
I am running a 460 I modded a couple weeks ago, and like all of my saws it is running in the low 14s and has obviously lots of high end and due too porting it also has plenty of torque.
Right now I am running a 32" bar, semi-skip ground chain, low rakers and an 8 tooth sprocket in really hard butted doug fir at 2800 ft elev.. It rips - plain and simple.
I am running a 460 I modded a couple weeks ago, and like all of my saws it is running in the low 14s and has obviously lots of high end and due too porting it also has plenty of torque.
Right now I am running a 32" bar, semi-skip ground chain, low rakers and an 8 tooth sprocket in really hard butted doug fir at 2800 ft elev.. It rips - plain and simple.
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Tree Sling'r
Addicted to ArboristSite
wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
So, I can get one at an auto-parts store, that would be convenient, and it'll be accurate for this application?
What type of compression numbers are:
verygood:
good:
okay:
problem:
Just make sure it has a fairly short hose, with a Shrader valve (same as a car tire's valve) at the end that screws into the cylinder.
Very good: anything much over 160 psi
Good: 140 psi and above
Ok: 130 psi range
Problem: anything much less than 130 psi will start giving you some issues.
Your elevation will also affect this somewhat, as you will get lower readings as you climb in elevation. Generally anything less than 110-120 psi will not even let the saw start, let alone run half decent.
PES+
Addicted to ArboristSite
So was I...and weeping willow that I have cut sometimes has burls/weird growth swirls at the base that acts just like the ballistic material in chaps....it fluffs out wet and soggy and stops the chain pretty well. It is the worst in spring or after a thaw in cold weather.
A few guys up here call it water willow
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
I dont see anything scary in the photos of the P/C, of course my eyes are shot and there is glare on the p skirt what do you guys think???
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PES+
Addicted to ArboristSite
With a dual port cover installed why is there carbon slobber at the bottom on the muffler port?....are you sure the baffle is not plugged up or assembled wrong?.....what oil mix ratio and brand oil are you using?
windthrown
361 Junkie
I cannot believe that it is the willow...
Willow is some of the lightest and easiest wood here that there is to cut. Like soft butter. I cannot believe that a 460 is going to bog down because you are cutting willow. Madrone and oaks here are waaaaaaay harder to cut becasue they are about twice as dense as willow. We have 9 or 10 species of willows growing here, including weeping. I have cut 12 inch weeping limbs with the baby Echo top handle saw. No problemo...
Willow is some of the lightest and easiest wood here that there is to cut. Like soft butter. I cannot believe that a 460 is going to bog down because you are cutting willow. Madrone and oaks here are waaaaaaay harder to cut becasue they are about twice as dense as willow. We have 9 or 10 species of willows growing here, including weeping. I have cut 12 inch weeping limbs with the baby Echo top handle saw. No problemo...
PES+
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was talking about the gnarly base......the limbs are never much of a problem
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windthrown
361 Junkie
Cylinder scoring?
From the third photo of the cylinder I cannot tell if it is scoring in there, or oil streaks on the sleeve. Not something that you can see well with a digital camera over the internet... but... if the sides are scored you may have toasted your saw's engine. Your saw should not smoke much and with 50:1 gas/oil. Our 290 smokes a tad of blue when it is cold then it burns clean. Blue smoke is usually oil, grey/white smoke is usually unburned gas.
From the third photo of the cylinder I cannot tell if it is scoring in there, or oil streaks on the sleeve. Not something that you can see well with a digital camera over the internet... but... if the sides are scored you may have toasted your saw's engine. Your saw should not smoke much and with 50:1 gas/oil. Our 290 smokes a tad of blue when it is cold then it burns clean. Blue smoke is usually oil, grey/white smoke is usually unburned gas.
windthrown
361 Junkie
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Yeah I do see something in the third photo (intake cyl wall streaks or something,,,Thats why I asked for back up,,,Wood chuckster,,, can you elborate alittle on what we are seeing there???? are the rings floating??? (not stuck???) talk to us dude!!!
wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
No scoring, smooth as glass in there, on the intake side as well, of what I can see anyway.
The cuts that were bogging happen to have some unruly grain, probably from some other limbs that had been trimmed quite some years ago. However, when I made the vids today, the cookies came out of section of straight grained, 25" dia. round. No vids because Dial-up times out before the upload is complete.
Went out just now to look at the exhaust port, the black in the port is kind of sticky/tarry. Also put both muff covers next to each other, the original cover(14months) has a light brown color on the inside, whereas the DP cover(1wk) has a black color on the inside. In both cases, the the coating feels very fine and very thin, not even smudging my fingertip.
All mix has been 50:1, Stihl orange oil.
This current 2.5gal jug is with Stihl low smoke, silver bottle, the orange was out of stock at time of need, could this be a factor?
I'll check with some parts stores in the morning regarding the com-tester.
The cuts that were bogging happen to have some unruly grain, probably from some other limbs that had been trimmed quite some years ago. However, when I made the vids today, the cookies came out of section of straight grained, 25" dia. round. No vids because Dial-up times out before the upload is complete.
Went out just now to look at the exhaust port, the black in the port is kind of sticky/tarry. Also put both muff covers next to each other, the original cover(14months) has a light brown color on the inside, whereas the DP cover(1wk) has a black color on the inside. In both cases, the the coating feels very fine and very thin, not even smudging my fingertip.
All mix has been 50:1, Stihl orange oil.
This current 2.5gal jug is with Stihl low smoke, silver bottle, the orange was out of stock at time of need, could this be a factor?
I'll check with some parts stores in the morning regarding the com-tester.
wdchuck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Brrrr, long cold walk to the garage.
Okay, took a dental pick to the rings, firmly just to see if they 'floated', nope, tighter than my teeth.
The streaks, well they are tough to discern for me, but with the light hitting it at the right angle they are visible, barely.
I've been reading old threads regarding 460,muffler mod, tuning, etc., trying to get as much info as possible. To be aware of updated replies I have to hit the 'New Posts' button up top every so often.
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RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Brrrr, long cold walk to the garage.
Okay, took a dental pick to the rings, firmly just to see if they 'floated', nope, tighter than my teeth.
The streaks, well they are tough to discern for me, but with the light hitting it at the right angle they are visible, barely.
I've been reading old threads regarding 460,muffler mod, tuning, etc., trying to get as much info as possible. To be aware of updated replies I have to hit the 'New Posts' button up top every so often.
I like to use a 1/4" wooden dowel to check the ring float but thats just me,,, they should float a little bit.... when you check the compression if you have some one to help out, one of you hold the saw top handle w/comp test guage where visible wi one hand, and throttle WFO with the other.... 4-6 good brisk full pulls or until it quits climbing, the tester will have a pressure release button under the guage thats why you need to hold the hose so it does not bang around and let the pressure data off that you are trying to gather,,,,,, Keep us posted
R2'ed
PES+
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stuck rings
Maybe try some of the Stihl decarbonizer......you pulling 15k without seizure was a sign of lowered compression..... and with lower compression comes less torque and that may also explain the black goo on the lower side of the exhaust.....blow by.....I can see it under the rings on the piston skirt as well.
Maybe try some of the Stihl decarbonizer......you pulling 15k without seizure was a sign of lowered compression..... and with lower compression comes less torque and that may also explain the black goo on the lower side of the exhaust.....blow by.....I can see it under the rings on the piston skirt as well.
