661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[DexterDay]

after the test the guys wanted to try the 36 tsumura and RS with their saws to see how they would fair...

046 ported hedgerow cutting - 19.7 sec

That's Matt's 064.

 

[DexterDay]

Where was that guy on this thread that said Red Bull would loose by 30%? Where did he get that number from?

So what this tells me is that it is way more important to have the oil/fuel ratio correct for a particular saw than performance enhancements. Correct? I mean, spend $300 for a port job for .4 seconds of an increase? Wow. And I own almost all ported saws, but running at 43.6:1 and have been for years.

Ported saws do make a difference when they are not gargling in oil. IMO

So much for calling Red Bull crazy from Wisconsin lol.

The limitation is the saw itself (rpm). A ported 460 posted faster times than the muff mod 661 and also the ported 661.

And the 460's were running 32:1.. One done by Randy and the other done by Tree Monkey. The Tree monkey 460 of @jrsdws was nasty

Yep...

 

[big t double]

I like how that guy tebos when cutting
Looks like a good time was had by all. I'd like to go to one of these gtgs and meet some of you folks sometime...but Saturday is our busiest day of the week so taking off this time if year just don't happen. Bummer.

 

[porsche965]

So is the Mtronics the limiting factor that otherwise would have the ported 32:1 saw pulling away by 30% as thought? But haven't we seen 30% improvement in videos before with 661s?

 

[bwalker]

Nope. I'll continue to use 32:1 in everything. I think H1R is off the list now though.



I'm gonna jump in here and say that the H1R is just too thick......

I know when I wash it out of my measuring cup it takes several times to get it all out.

I don't think it's the viscosity only. I have ran other oils that have simular viscosity and they don't alter combustion.

 

[Mastermind]

I don't think it's the viscosity only. I have ran other oils that have simular viscosity and they don't alter combustion.

This "oddness" just seems to show up in the M/T saws. That's where I think the thickness matters.

 

[bwalker]

Where was that guy on this thread that said Red Bull would loose by 30%? Where did he get that number from?

So what this tells me is that it is way more important to have the oil/fuel ratio correct for a particular saw than performance enhancements. Correct? I mean, spend $300 for a port job for .4 seconds of an increase? Wow. And I own almost all ported saws, but running at 43.6:1 and have been for years.

Ported saws do make a difference when they are not gargling in oil. IMO

So much for calling Red Bull crazy from Wisconsin lol.

Where was that guy on this thread that said Red Bull would loose by 30%? Where did he get that number from?

So what this tells me is that it is way more important to have the oil/fuel ratio correct for a particular saw than performance enhancements. Correct? I mean, spend $300 for a port job for .4 seconds of an increase? Wow. And I own almost all ported saws, but running at 43.6:1 and have been for years.

Ported saws do make a difference when they are not gargling in oil. IMO

So much for calling Red Bull crazy from Wisconsin lol.

You can't really say much till your try another oil. With good oil ratio shouldn't matter and you should cut faster with more..

 

[DexterDay]

So is the Mtronics the limiting factor that otherwise would have the ported 32:1 saw pulling away by 30% as thought? But haven't we seen 30% improvement in videos before with 661s?

What would have been a better test, is using both 50:1 and then 32:1 in both the stock and ported saws. And seeing the difference in what each ratio did in its own saw.

Because both of the 460's had 32:1 and they ran just fine.

Glad that Jrsdws is driving right now. I won't be able to read this thread for over 6 hours after we get to his place and I have to drive the remaining 6.5 hours to my house from there.

 

[porsche965]

It would be interesting to have a device that could measure the viscosity any oil ratio mixed with fuel had as the finished product.

 

[Ron660]

vids done...

- Both saws first drained of oil and gas.
- same stihl bar oil
-same bar - maul and I both have tsumura 36's. Some debate on if use them both or just use one and switch over. Ended up using same bar and switching.
- air filter cleaned
- 1 new stihl RS chain for each saw.
- one small warm up cut in cotton wood prior to doing the 2 main cuts. Everyone involved was interested in making sure all the i's were dotted and t's crossed.


Muff modded 661 50:1 H1R went first. I was cutting.

log 1 - 22.4 sec , log 2 - 26.0 sec




bar switched to ported 661, new chain used

Ported 661 32:1 H1R - I was cutting

log 1 - 22.0 sec , log 2 - 26.0 sec




bar already on ported 661 so we decided to do back to back.

ported 661 32:1 H1R - Hedgerow cutting

log 1 - 21.4 sec , log 2 - 25.0 sec




bar switched to muff modded 661 50:1 H1R (switched back to other chain) - Hedgegrow cutting

log 1 - 22.4 sec , log 2 - 25.4 sec




Next,

Switched the ported 661 from 32:1 H1R to 40:1 H1R (performed reset)

note - this cut was done after the chain had been used for a number of cuts. Namely the cuts shown (and more) in the very next post.

19.4 sec




The saw ran 40:1 H1R for the rest of the day. About half a gallon. A few people who ran the saw throughout the day, noted that the saw seemed to get stronger as the day progressed.

With Redbull: Ported 661 0.8% faster than the muffler modded 661
With Hedgerow: Ported 661 2.9% faster

 

[bwalker]

It would be interesting to have a device that could measure the viscosity any oil ratio mixed with fuel had as the finished product.

This doesn't matter as the fuel and oil seperate as soon as the premix enters the motor for the most part.
I don't think it has anything to do with viscosity as Motul 800 isn't known for combustion issues but H1R is.

 

[porsche965]

Wouldn't the mix ratio have something to do with an oil's ability to combust?

 

[Mastermind]

I've got a lot of wok to do now.

I'll have to redo all my testing with a new oil. I've been getting good gains over stock on the 661.......but so far, always with H1R @ 32:1.

 

[Stihl 041S]

The pressure transducers attach to the outside of the barrel. So you don't need a test barrel for personal use.
The sytem.is a Oehler 43 and it cost about 1300 bucks ten years ago when friend purchased it.
However, to be honest I seldom bother with it any more as velocity is an.indication of pressure and you can certainly use a chronograph like a oehler 35p to determine safe loads.

But with the 43 you have no accurate reference load.
And velocity is NOT an indication of pressure. Except with the same powder.
Some powders spike more than others.

 

[nitehawk55]

The fuel and the oil separate once it enters the engine ?.....really ??
Fuel goes to the combustion chamber and the oil to the bearings and friction surfaces ....hahaha !

 

[bwalker]

The fuel and the oil separate once it enters the engine ?.....really ??
Fuel goes to the combustion chamber and the oil to the bearings and friction surfaces ....hahaha !

Yes.

 

[bwalker]

But with the 43 you have no accurate reference load.
And velocity is NOT an indication of pressure. Except with the same powder.
Some powders spike more than others.

Velocity is an indication of pressure. Whole articles have been written on this subject.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Velocity is an indication of pressure. Whole articles have been written on this subject.

Only with the same powder.
Try getting a 320 gr bullet to 1300 in a 45 Colt with 231.....

 

[bwalker]

Only with the same powder.
Try getting a 320 gr bullet to 1300 in a 45 Colt with 231.....

And this matters how? What your trying to accomplish if to determine the pressure ceilings of a particular bullet power combo.
Hobestly, I rarely use the 43 any more as a 35p and some published data accomplishes the same thing.

 

[bwalker]

Wouldn't the mix ratio have something to do with an oil's ability to combust?

Not with good oil. Kart guys run motul 800 down to 16:1 without issue. I have run 2R down to 20:1 without issue.