661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[huskihl]

Where the heck is Bwalker........ I hate to say it but I am starting to miss him in an odd nostalgic kinda way....

I think once WS showed up, bw took his oil and went home

 

[Gypo Logger]

On what?

View attachment 428553

His dickydo. Lol

 

[windthrown]

I am thinking of getting a 661. Would that make a good pussie magnet or what?

 

[Gypo Logger]

No, I think a Wildthing would have the same effect. Lol

 

[windthrown]

Damn, I sold my WildThing for $100 several years ago. I did not even put a drop of gas in it.


Suck on my 18 inch!

 

[bwalker]

I think once WS showed up, bw took his oil and went home

No, just been busy with work. Carry on..

 

[Justsaws]

Peanut oil or corn, canola oil is a better bar lube than frying oil. Krispy Kreme doughnuts used to be $.50 each, translated to the metric system that would be $.50 to much per doughnut. Tim Hortons, where dreams of a good doughnut go to die.

Hmm, doughnut. 32:1 ratio seems about right.

 

[windthrown]

.50 cents for a Krispy donut? What century was that in?

2015 Krispy Kreme prices:
Original Glazed 1 Pc. $0.99
Original Glazed Dozen $7.99
Assorted Varieties 1 Pc. $1.09
Assorted Varieties Dozen $8.99
Fritters & Bars 1 Pc. $1.39

 

[Justsaws]

Probably around 2008 would be the last time I purchased a KK product. Gas station grab to motivate the crew as they were informed of the day they were starting or not yet finished with depending on the situation.

Never knew they had an actual KK retail locations, always saw them at gas stations, Krogers and such.

 

[mdavlee]

Tim Hortons FTW!!!!

 

[the GOAT]

Local gourmet...

http://www.theholydonut.com/index.php/flavorslist

 

[tree monkey]

so the oil police show up needing doughnuts

 

[Justsaws]

If a better quality doughnut was used than perhaps fewer doughnuts would have been needed however it was not worth the effort in order to take the risk so just buy gas station brand and use more.

 

[windthrown]

Never knew they had an actual KK retail locations, always saw them at gas stations, Krogers and such.

KK are a chain, and we even have them out here in the wild west. They are in 23 different countries and there are about 1000 KK stores. I guess they actually have been around for a long time, they were started in 1937 in South Carolina. They do not hold a candle to Voodoo Doughnuts though. At Voodoo you can get specialty donuts like bacon topped maple bars, Captain Crunch or M&M topped donuts, and mango jelly filled fritters. They are only in Portland, Eugene, and Denver though.

http://www.voodoodoughnut.com

 

[windthrown]

so the oil police show up needing doughnuts

Well, at least this thread is on topic: they are cooked in oil, boss!


And we have not even mentioned Dunkin' Donuts

(every trip to Boston there are 2 more on every block there)

 

[Flatie]

800 has a a really high ash content for a two cycle oil, meaning that it has alot of zinc and calcium antiwear/detergent additives. While at face value this sounds like a good thing, mettalic ash is what causes plug fouling and pre ignition causing deposits.

Motul responded...

Redbull -

Sir, couple more...

1) Is that because the lower viscosity of 710 having less film strength? ("Running the 710 at a ratio of 32:1 will not offer more protection than the 800 at 50:1.")

2) I know it says "above exising standards" but is 800 off road actually Jaso -FD certified? If not, why ?

3) Wouldn't checking your plug - just tell you if your tunning was incorrect?

4) I've heard that the metallics in 800 off road can lead to build up and would cause a great ignition source for pre ignition. Have you heard of this happening? Could you talk about the metallics in 800 off road? No offense intended. It's heresay I understand. I'm just concerned.


5) Do you think that the ported saw would require a heavier mix ratio? If so, why? If not, why?

6) If I run 800 too rich say between 25-32:1 what is going to happen to my saw (generally speaking) I'm thinking the excess oil would impead the piston movement some not allowing for max/optimal RPMs, and there would be some unburnt deposit build up


------------------------------------
Motul Response:

1) The 800 is more protective because it is an Ester based product.

2) Technically the 800 is not JASO certified. It is not JASO certified because it is designed as a racing product thus it is not required to be JASO certified.

3) The mixture of premix is part of your tuning. The color of your plug will tell you if the premix is too rich, lean or perfect for the engine.

4) I am not sure where you heard that from, but that statement is false. 800 offroad is one of the cleanest burning premixes out there. Being an ester based product there is very little metallics in the product. Everyone that has used this product for chainsaws can't say enough about how clean their engines are after use.

5) I do not think that your ported saw will require a heavier mix ratio. Refer to the color of your plug for this information

6) Generally speaking like all two stroke engines a heavier mixture will make run sluggish and spew oil out of the exhaust.


Regards,

Jon Muto
Marketing Coordinator
Motul USA Inc. | 790C Indigo Ct. | Pomona, CA 91767
T 909-625-1292 Ext. 200 | F 909-625-2697 | Cell 909-538-2091
[email protected]|www.motul.com

The Rep says very little metallics which could be them being bias. You say it's high. What's one to believe??

..............Maxima........Mobil1.......Motorex........Motul

Iron...............0...............1...............0............0
Tin................0...............0...............0............57
Silicon............0...............0...............0............2
Sodium...........0...............1...............1............3
Titanium.........1...............6...............6............0
Potassium........0...............0...............0............1
Boron.............1...............3...............0............2
Magnesium.......1..............1...............2............2
Calcium.........462.............481............486.........651
Barium............2...............2..............2............1
Phosphorus.......3..............19..............6............62
Zinc...............2..............24..............5............65

Water (IR)...... < 0.1.........< 0.1%.........0.1..........0.1
VIS @ 100C ..... 9.6 cSt......14.3...........12.6.........18.0
TAN..............0.15..........0.49...........0.60.........0.53

Do you have one for K2 and 800 off road? What is this measured in?

 

[Flatie]

Just spoke with a Motul Rep. He recommended 800 off-road or road racing for my ported 660. He didn't recommend 710 but stated if I wanted to try 710 use only at 32:1. It's only 75% oil! He also said 800 could be mixed at 40:1 with sufficient lubrication. Guess the other Motul guy I talked to was a sales rep. I asked about the JASO rating of 800. He said any oil made stricly for racing isn't JASO required but it would exceed FD certification. Using 800 or R50 I don't think we'll ever have a lubrication or wear issue.

Again your completley wrong..
Ash refers to the amount of mettalic ash when reacting an oil sample with sulfuric acid... It has nothing to do with smoke.
JASO puts a limit on ash and there is no way 800t would meet jaso-FD because it's ash content is through the roof.

What do you guys see weird here???



Maxima Super M Injector, exceed BIA/TCW, JASO-FC, ISO-E-GD and API TC.

Mobil1 MX2T, exceed JASO-FC, Proposed ISO-L-EGD, API TC.

Motorex CrossPower 2T, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD, ISO-Global GC, API TC, Low Smoke.

Motul 800 Factory Line Road Racing 2T double ester, API TC.

http://images28.fotki.com/v986/photos/7/39087/7893182/IMAG0003-vi.jpg

...............Maxima........Mobil1.......Motorex........Motul

Iron...............0...............1...............0............0
Tin................0...............0...............0............57
Silicon............0...............0...............0............2
Sodium...........0...............1...............1............3
Titanium.........1...............6...............6............0
Potassium........0...............0...............0............1
Boron.............1...............3...............0............2
Magnesium.......1..............1...............2............2
Calcium.........462.............481............486.........651
Barium............2...............2..............2............1
Phosphorus.......3..............19..............6............62
Zinc...............2..............24..............5............65

Water (IR)...... < 0.1.........< 0.1%.........0.1..........0.1
VIS @ 100C ..... 9.6 cSt......14.3...........12.6.........18.0
TAN..............0.15..........0.49...........0.60.........0.53

Again rep saying should exceed FD and he could be bias. You saying not a chance. I do accept the zinc content is high on Road Racing. Is the off road as high? Have you seen the analysis sheet?

Have you seen the K2 analysis sheet? I'm assuming it's lower as with the FD rating it has, but i hate assuming.

 

[bwalker]

Again rep saying should exceed FD and he could be bias. You saying not a chance. I do accept the zinc content is high on Road Racing. Is the off road as high? Have you seen the analysis sheet?

Have you seen the K2 analysis sheet? I'm assuming it's lower as with the FD rating it has, but i hate assuming.

I have not seen a VOA for K2. Motul 800 dies have sky high mettalic content for both versions from the VOA'S I have seen.

 

[redbull660]

Hey guys, I was doing any unrelated test yesterday and found something interesting...

I was testing more 661 muffler combo's. I was trying to see if there was a difference in performance between the factory spark screen vs the after mkt wider weave I usually use.

I did a total of 10 cuts for each setup, I timed the cuts, and took temp readings. The last 4 cuts were long and I did them back to back with out any idle time.

The times were very close for about the first 5-6 cuts (even or with in half a sec). After that the wider weave arrestor screen times got faster by on avg by about 1.5-2 seconds.

The interesting part is the temp readings were about the same (A little higher with the stock screen on avg about 5-7 F ) But on the final reading after I had pushed the saw on those final 4 cuts ...

stock screen - 385 F
wider weave screen - 364 F


This seems significant to me because,

We were talking earlier in the thread maybe 10-20 pages ago, about ported saw needing more oil -vs- stock saw, because the ported saw ran hotter, due to the increased rpm's and thus oil migration. btw - does anyone know what the difference in temp is between a stock saw and a ported saw?


I have also found there was a nice difference in Cyl/Jug temp depending on the bar you used...

24" bar comparison - http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...parison-stihl-cannon-tsumura-sugihara.276432/
36" bar comparison - http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/36-bar-comparison.273078/
32" bar comparison - http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/32-detailed-bar-comparison-video.267253/
28" bar comparison - http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...n-stihl-cannon-total-tsumura-sugihara.276353/

20" bar comparison in this post - http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...-cannon-tsumura-sugihara.276432/#post-5282641

 

[KenJax Tree]

Were there solvents in the bar oil? Because solvents don't lubricate so that could contribute to a hotter bar and cause a little drag and make the motor work harder and build more heat, maybe see if you can modify the oiler a little, you're not getting as much oil as you think.