661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Mastermind]

Nope. I was testing for fastest cut times, pushing the envelope with the tune. Without the added protection of more oil, I almost overheated the piston. 32:1 gives me the protection to increase that buffer zone.

How high was it taching Brad?

 

[bwalker]

Nope. I was testing for fastest cut times, pushing the envelope with the tune. Without the added protection of more oil, I almost overheated the piston. 32:1 gives me the protection to increase that buffer zone.

Well, if you scuffed it you found the envelope. You were running too lean and 32:1 probably would not have made a differance.

 

[blsnelling]

fully agree you'd need more oil in a ported saw. More compression = oil easier displaced = more oil needed to maintain same required lube factor.

It's not just the compression, it's also the RPMs. I was tuning a 346 in the cut yesterday. I pulled it out of the wood and it was turning 15,500. It was turning 12,700-13,000 in the cut. 50:1 leaves a very thin margin of error at those performance levels. It's simply not worth the risk. I haven't run 50:1 in a saw since that happened several years ago.

 

[blsnelling]

Who else?

Brad of course.

My heart is crushed, lol.

 

[blsnelling]

Well, if you scuffed it you found the envelope. You were running too lean and 32:1 probably would not have made a differance.

I've tuned hundreds and hundreds of saws, most of them ported. Just ask the guys that hear me tune a saw on the ragged lean edge before a cant race. I've never scored a piston due to the tune. That one occurrence was the closest I came and was a very rare occurrence that I was using 50:1.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I know we all appreciate Redbulls efforts as I do. What should be considered here in the conversation would be several porters here commenting that have been inside many saws and what each oil we are discussing actually are doing to the insides

What about guys that put more hours on a saw in a month than most ported saws will have in a lifetime? Their opinion is invalid?

 

[7sleeper]

It all works, but I put the oil in first and let the churning of the gas being pumped in under pressure do the mixing. I don't think I suggested running a saw at the pump station either. Where did you get that from?

Ian

I believe you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that you recomend running at the pump station but that the mixed fuel has enough time through transport to the cutting site to become sufficiently mixed. I would only be afraid of problems if after initial mixing, in the first few minutes, the fuel mix was used in the saw.

7

 

[bwalker]

I've tuned hundreds and hundreds of saws, most of them ported. Just ask the guys that hear me tune a saw on the ragged lean edge before a cant race. I've never scored a piston due to the tune. That one occurrence was the closest I came and was a very rare occurrence that I was using 50:1.

Brad, do you typically find that a saw cuts faster teams when leaned to the edge? It's been my expiereance that torque starts to drop off when doing that, but.I have no interest or expiereance in cutting cants
And I know from expiereance that you can toast a piston from running lean, even on castor at 16:1.

 

[bwalker]

I believe you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that you recomend running at the pump station but that the mixed fuel has enough time through transport to the cutting site to become sufficiently mixed. I would only be afraid of problems if after initial mixing, in the first few minutes, the fuel mix was used in the saw.

7

Why would you not just add oil then gas. Pumping the fuel in mixes it thoroughly, although I always shake it as well.

 

[KG441c]

Peer reviewed RESEARCH.......haaahaaahhaa, is that the guy with the "cleaner woodshed" or not so cluttered Charlie Foxtrot work bench doing that Scientific testing on his computer controlled Dynamometer like they have at Virginia Beach.....[/QUOTE

It's pretty important to the motor and stuff.

Hell ya its a big deal! Why dont we all run no name motor oil in our vehicle if its no big deal?

 

[blsnelling]

Brad, do you typically find that a saw cuts faster teams when leaned to the edge? It's been my expiereance that torque starts to drop off when doing that, but.

Most definitely in cant racing. I would never run a saw that lean in big wood or when working. "Lean is mean" until you go too far.

 

[KG441c]

compression is measured in PSI pressure per sq inch right? If there is more pressure exerted on the surfaces, then oil gets displaced or spread thinner? Thus the film would be thinner and you'd need a heavier oil mix to maintain the same lube?

Exactly! Thats where the 800t and h1r 100% ester oil exceeds. Where the other oils film strength allow it to displace off the surfaces easier the ester molecules absorb and stay put

 

[bwalker]

Exactly! Thats where the 800t and h1r 100% ester oil exceeds. Where the other oils film strength allow it to displace off the surfaces easier the ester molecules absorb and stay put

Except the oil film isn't exposed to the full pressure of combustion...

 

[blsnelling]

Except the oil film isn't exposed to the full pressure of combustion...

But it does put more stress on the bearings, where a higher film strength will protect better.

 

[Mastermind]

Hold on a minute.

Happy Easter Gentlemen.

 

[blsnelling]

Happy Easter Gentlemen.

He is risen!

 

[STIHLTHEDEERE]

It's pretty important to the motor and stuff.

I agree totally. 99% percent of OPE, is probably run at 50-1 and gets along just fine. I just don't see the reason for such a pissing match over oil? Do what works best for your application, and be done with it. It would appear that some of these guys have way too much time on their hands.

 

[Mastermind]

We've got 20 - 30 kids hunting eggs right now.

Seeing all my loved ones together is a great thing.

 

[Mastermind]

I agree totally. 99% percent of OPE, is probably run at 50-1 and gets along just fine. I just don't see the reason for such a pissing match over oil? Do what works best for your application, and be done with it. It would appear that some of these guys have way too much time on their hands.

I don't like 50:1 in any OPE. Yes, it will work........barely. The whole unit is dry and sooty when taken apart for inspection. Part of that is likely tune......but still....

Why spend 1000.00 on a pro saw......then skimp on oil?

 

[bwalker]

But it does put more stress on the bearings, where a higher film strength will protect better.

True, from the added heat and rpm.
The statement made Redbull660 is still false.