661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[bwalker]

I used my 338RUM on a couple elk and a couple deer. 250gr swift Aframe are nicknamed "special non-tracking bullets" in deer camp. So far, one has yet to move post shot lol

The 165 a frame out of a 300 win mag is pretty decisive and if they run you typically will have a blood trail, which IME with a Barnes you will not.
Barnes have their place. IE using something like a 243 or 25-06 elk as they will shoot through both sides.

 

[mdavlee]

The berger VLD and Amax are both pretty deadly for deer. My neighbor has taken them to 600 yards with each. One was a doe with the 338 and the other came put a 6.5-284.

 

[bwalker]

The berger VLD and Amax are both pretty deadly for deer. My neighbor has taken them to 600 yards with each. One was a doe with the 338 and the other came put a 6.5-284.

Don't know about the amax, but the VLD is death and destruction like nothing I have seen.
Of course Whitespider will come along and say cast bullets kill as well...pure bs!

 

[MustangMike]

Velocity and Bullet profile will determine the rate of twist needed. A round nose bullet will stabilize with a lot less twist than a spitzter. I don't think you will stabilize a 240 gr bullet (sptizter boattail) with 1 in 10 twist at 308 velocity.

The 244 Rem w/1 in 12 twist was not good at stabilizing 100 gr bullets.

Re the Barnes bullets: They usually penetrate & kill very well because they form 4 petals that spin with the rifling (instead of a full mushroom) that cut the arteries, but I can understand that if you strike heavy bone that removes the petals they will kill more slowly, but they will still kill and are one of the most dependable bullets out there. All bullets will have +/- depending on the situation.

Usually when you strike bone, the fragmented bone aids in the killing, but it will depend on the angle, etc, etc.

 

[mdavlee]

Don't know about the amax, but the VLD is death and destruction like nothing I have seen.
Of course Whitespider will come along and say cast bullets kill as well...pure bs!

The Amax made a nice exit wound as well. Better than I thought it would.

240 grain isn't made for the 308. The 300 RUM and Norma shoot them well at higher velocities.

 

[Ron660]

My 5r is 1:11.2 twist I think

I'd stay with 168 and under.

 

[Ron660]

The elk I shot last year with a 180 TTSX out of a 300 rum wasn't impressed at all and it was shot at extremely close range with a the shoulder joint being exploded on entry.
There is no magic when it comes to bullet performance. Bullets that fragment some kill much faster, bullets with a wider frontal area kill faster. The Barnes doesn't fragment and had a narrow frontal area. Great for digging deap, but not so great for killing quickly.

Like most deer I've shot, some run and some drop. Doesn't matter if it's TSX's, Sirocco's, or ballistic tips. I'll soon be experimenting with Berger VLD's in my STW and 264 mag. I have H1000 and Retumbo to try also.

 

[Ron660]

My 5r is 1:11.2 twist I think

My Springfield Armory M1A was 1:11. It liked 165 ballistic tips.

 

[MustangMike]

Usually it is based on shot placement. If you take out a shoulder or two, the deer will often drop, but if you have a good clean heart/lung shot, right in back of the shoulder (the shot I prefer), the deer will usually run some, but you will eat more meat.

 

[Ron660]

If I'm going to be toking a bull-barreled heavy rifle it's not going to be in a 308. It's going to be at least a .264 diameter or larger going over 3000 fps. Carrying a heavy barreled 308, to me, is like carrying the weight of a 660 with a 40cc engine in it besides a 90cc engine.

 

[bwalker]

Like most deer I've shot, some run and some drop. Doesn't matter if it's TSX's, Sirocco's, or ballistic tips. I'll soon be experimenting with Berger VLD's in my STW and 264 mag. I have H1000 and Retumbo to try also.

Yes, bit I am not talking about annihilated incident. The 25 cal Barnes have been really problematic.

 

[bwalker]

If I'm going to be toking a bull-barreled heavy rifle it's not going to be in a 308. It's going to be at least a .264 diameter or larger going over 3000 fps. Carrying a heavy barreled 308, to me, is like carrying the weight of a 660 with a 40cc engine in it besides a 90cc engine.

308 case is better suited to 6mm,6.5mm and 7mm bullets IMO.
And I see about zero use for a bull barreled rifle besides target shooting and high volume varmint hunting.

 

[bwalker]

Velocity and Bullet profile will determine the rate of twist needed. A round nose bullet will stabilize with a lot less twist than a spitzter. I don't think you will stabilize a 240 gr bullet (sptizter boattail) with 1 in 10 twist at 308 velocity.

The 244 Rem w/1 in 12 twist was not good at stabilizing 100 gr bullets.

Re the Barnes bullets: They usually penetrate & kill very well because they form 4 petals that spin with the rifling (instead of a full mushroom) that cut the arteries, but I can understand that if you strike heavy bone that removes the petals they will kill more slowly, but they will still kill and are one of the most dependable bullets out there. All bullets will have +/- depending on the situation.

Usually when you strike bone, the fragmented bone aids in the killing, but it will depend on the angle, etc, etc.

Barnes probaly have one of the worst reputations for inconsistent performance of any bullet currently made. A Google search will prove this out.
About the most consisting fast killing yet also penetarting bullet made is the Nosler partition. Really nothing competes with it although many try.

 

[huskihl]

Barnes probaly have one of the worst reputations for inconsistent performance of any bullet currently made. A Google search will prove this out.
About the most consisting fast killing yet also penetarting bullet made is the Nosler partition. Really nothing competes with it although many try.

I personally have had better luck with sciroccos. Never been a fan of the nosler. Which is odd because they're popular

 

[N8TE]

To heavy unless you have the right barrel twist.

Bullet length has much more to do with it than weight.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[bwalker]

I personally have had better luck with sciroccos. Never been a fan of the nosler. Which is odd because they're popular

I personaly prefer certain Ballistic Tips, like the 120 7mm, 150 7mm, 168 30 cal, 180 30 cal and the 200gr 338. These particular bullets have very thick jackets and I have used the 30 cal 1 80's on elk out now a 300 rum, and 300 win mag.

 

[SCHallenger]

Velocity and Bullet profile will determine the rate of twist needed. A round nose bullet will stabilize with a lot less twist than a spitzter. I don't think you will stabilize a 240 gr bullet (sptizter boattail) with 1 in 10 twist at 308 velocity.

The 244 Rem w/1 in 12 twist was not good at stabilizing 100 gr bullets.

Re the Barnes bullets: They usually penetrate & kill very well because they form 4 petals that spin with the rifling (instead of a full mushroom) that cut the arteries, but I can understand that if you strike heavy bone that removes the petals they will kill more slowly, but they will still kill and are one of the most dependable bullets out there. All bullets will have +/- depending on the situation.

Usually when you strike bone, the fragmented bone aids in the killing, but it will depend on the angle, etc, etc.

I have a custom .244 with a 1 in 12 twist. The heaviest it would stabilize was an 87gr. Hornady Spire Point. It was made with woodchucking in mind using the Sierra 85gr. boattail, but it produced significantly better accuracy with the 75gr. Sierra. The 87 Hornady was used on a Pronghorn quartering toward me. It entered just in front of the leading shoulder at an upward angle, penetrated about 12in, & blew out the plumbing over the heart. He stood up on his hind legs & toppled over on his side.

 

[MustangMike]

308 case is better suited to 6mm,6.5mm and 7mm bullets IMO.
And I see about zero use for a bull barreled rifle besides target shooting and high volume varmint hunting.

Way back when I thought Winchester made a huge mistake not bringing out a 270/308. IMO, it would have been the perfect dual purpose bullet. The success of the 6.5 & 7mm Rems on that case, I think, prove my point. That case capacity was better suited to the 270 bore than the 06 case for a dual purpose round.

I almost did a wildcat in that cal.

 

[bwalker]

Way back when I thought Winchester made a huge mistake not bringing out a 270/308. IMO, it would have been the perfect dual purpose bullet. The success of the 6.5 & 7mm Rems on that case, I think, prove my point. That case capacity was better suited to the 270 bore than the 06 case for a dual purpose round.

I almost did a wildcat in that cal.

Hard to beat a 270, although it's not popular with the long range crowd anymore.
I have often thought if I sold all my rifles besides a 22, 223 ,270 and a 375 I'd be set for anything that walks.

 

[MustangMike]

The 270 is great for open field shots, but for a dual purpose cartridge, a 27/08 IMO would be better. I think there would have been plenty of demand for both, but Winchester did not see it that way.

Since I do most of my hunting in dense woods, I've returned to the 30 bore for hunting. Over the years, I've just had a far higher success rate with it. The last deer I took with the 270 WSM, the bullet obviously encountered some brush before hitting the deer, the entry hole was large and the exit hole small. The deer was well hit and still went over 100 yds.

I know all about sectional density and everything else, but in real life, the 30 cal bullets just seem to do better for me. In fact, if I did not feel the need to use a scope (the eyes got older), I'd still be using the 348 Win. It is hard to beat the performance of that cartridge. Was going to have a Ruger Single shot made up in it, but decided I wanted more than on shot in the gun on freezing cold days when your fingers start to go numb.

A 338/06 or 338 Federal would likely be very effective also, but the 30s just seem to do well enough.