661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[Miles86]

I might add that this is the first time I have seen a OPE market an ashless oil for air cooled equipment.
Stihl might have been smart to have talked to some other OEM's like the snowmobile and jetski makers that went down the same road with poor results in the early 90's

Howdy-

Yes BW, I have a tough time in my head accepting the ashless versus something low-ash, I am certain Stihl did in-house testing (as shown in the article). Are base oils are improved to the point where the oil is the best combination of clean operating and protection ? (outside of a racing 2 stroke kart)

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf

Verifying on my $99 leaf blower using Stihl Ultra.

I use 20:1 and tune carb for this ratio, no carbon build at all, and on the 3rd year Stihl Ultra, all OK.

I can't prove this- but I believe from some older MSDS sheets - that Echo Red Armor is ashless (see the corrosion inhibitor).

Rated jaso like stihl ultra. So maybe ashless no longer means outboard motors only?


http://www.shindaiwa-usa.com/getattachment/9ee40453-a8f5-4647-988b-b20ebe5afe03
http://additives.shamrockoils.com/l...ibitor/rust-and-corrosion-inhibitor-1?print=1

Any corrections or info appreciated !

 

[huskihl]

Howdy-

Yes BW, I have a tough time in my head accepting the ashless versus something low-ash, I am certain Stihl did in-house testing (as shown in the article). Are base oils are improved to the point where the oil is the best combination of clean operating and protection ? (outside of a racing 2 stroke kart)

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf

Verifying on my $99 leaf blower using Stihl Ultra.

I use 20:1 and tune carb for this ratio, no carbon build at all, and on the 3rd year Stihl Ultra, all OK.

I can't prove this- but I believe from some older MSDS sheets - that Echo Red Armor is ashless (see the corrosion inhibitor).

Rated jaso like stihl ultra. So maybe ashless no longer means outboard motors only?


http://www.shindaiwa-usa.com/getattachment/9ee40453-a8f5-4647-988b-b20ebe5afe03
http://additives.shamrockoils.com/l...ibitor/rust-and-corrosion-inhibitor-1?print=1

Any corrections or info appreciated !

Seems like it was mentioned 25 or 30,000 posts ago that ultra was rated Jaso fb (like tcw3)? Or was that older stuff back when they used to argue about which tcw3 was best for a saw? (Shrug). I can't remember. Oop. Gotta go. Barbie's calling again....

 

[Deleted member 83629]

TCW3 carry's a rating from API as TC which is jaso FA,FB
API TC+ is jaso FC,FB

 

[windthrown]

I see that this BS endless oil rant still continues... what a waste of server space.

 

[Deleted member 83629]

Seems like it was mentioned 25 or 30,000 posts ago that ultra was rated Jaso fb (like tcw3)? Or was that older stuff back when they used to argue about which tcw3 was best for a saw? (Shrug). I can't remember. Oop. Gotta go. Barbie's calling again....

pennzoil and valvoline carry oil called multi purpose 2t it rated nmma tcw3 and api tc on the back

 

[windthrown]

TCW3 carry's a rating from API as TC which is jaso FA,FB
API TC+ is jaso FC,FB

You are basically incorrect in this post.

API is a series of old oil standards and ratings that are mostly extinct. They are not equivalent to any other standards. No one manages or updates API any more, but people still use them as a 'standard.'
TC-W3 is a standard for oil specifically intended for use in water cooled marine 2-stroke engines (and also commonly used in snow machine engines).
JASO FA/FB/FC/FD is a Japanese standard for air cooled 2-stroke motorcycle engines. They are similar to the European ISO standards which also apply to air cooled engines, but ISO includes more testing for piston cleanliness and detergent effect.

You would be a fool to use a TC-W3 water cooled or so called 'multi-purpose' 2-stroke oil in an air cooled 2-stroke engine like in a chainsaw. It will work in a pinch, but they are designed differently. The biggest difference is that water cooled oils are designed for engines with much lower combustion temps and much lower revs than chainsaws.

From a post long ago on AS by tdi-rick:

...watercaft oils are designed for engines with much lower combustion temps and much lower revs, typically up to about 7,000RPM.

The additive package is designed to keep the ring grooves and chamber clean at these low revs and temps. If you use them in a high speed, air cooled two stroke you'll probably seize the engine as the additive package isn't designed to cope with the high skirt load and ring land and chamber temps, it breaks down too soon and high wear occurs.

Conversely, if you use an air cooled specific oil in an outboard, you'll gum up the rings, chamber and exhaust pretty quickly and pollute the water it's discharged into.

Yep, no point in reading or posting on this forum any more. Everything has long since been forgotten, and douchebags rule here.

 

[Stihlman441]

As far as I know this is the same thing different label contact MCW Matt he has been using it for years in ported saws

 

[huskihl]

You would be a fool to use a TC-W3 water cooled or so called 'multi-purpose' 2-stroke oil in an air cooled 2-stroke engine like in a chainsaw.

While I agree with you 95% of the time, I don't think this has been "proven" here, only followed as a belief. There are many loggers who get many years of service from a chainsaw engine being run exclusively on tcw3 oil. I'm not saying it's recommended, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work well. I'd be willing to bet no one here, with enough experience to know for certain, has ever burned up a chainsaw engine because of running a tcw3 oil. Real world experience says quite the opposite. Evidence is not there to call them fools.

IME, non synthetic oils seem to preserve soft rubber replaceable parts and protect carb internals better than synthetics. Case in point: my 92 husky 51. Never had the cylinder cover off. Never a carb kit. Never a fuel or impulse hose replaced. It's had minimal use the last 10 years (20 hours a year), but to me, that's testament to my belief.

My 1995 stihl ts400 concrete saw had the same experience, although I did replace the fuel hose this past winter.

I've been trying some fd rated oils lately. They do seem to run cleaner (examining the exhaust port). And I'll continue to use them unless I'm replacing rubber parts next year. I use my saws daily or weekly and there's no way in hell I'm dumping out my mix after daily use. If I add up the hourly cost of me or employees dumping out fuel every time, replacing rubber parts because they're prematurely worn out, and all the apparent hassles of the AS crowd (that I've never experienced until coming here), them I'm going back to my cheap, and apparently highly effective, tcw3 oil.

Don't knock what you obviously haven't tried.

 

[NWCoaster]

Yep, no point in reading or posting on this forum any more. Everything has long since been forgotten, and douchebags rule here.
windthrown,Yesterday at 9:38 PM

What are you trying to say....cmon..... tell us what you really think.... Lol.

 

[wigglesworth]

So.....

Anybody win yet?

 

[Moparmyway]

So.....

Anybody win yet?

AFAIK, we dont know who won, but we all now know that H1R lost

 

[bwalker]

Howdy-

Yes BW, I have a tough time in my head accepting the ashless versus something low-ash, I am certain Stihl did in-house testing (as shown in the article). Are base oils are improved to the point where the oil is the best combination of clean operating and protection ? (outside of a racing 2 stroke kart)

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf

Verifying on my $99 leaf blower using Stihl Ultra.

I use 20:1 and tune carb for this ratio, no carbon build at all, and on the 3rd year Stihl Ultra, all OK.

I can't prove this- but I believe from some older MSDS sheets - that Echo Red Armor is ashless (see the corrosion inhibitor).

Rated jaso like stihl ultra. So maybe ashless no longer means outboard motors only?


http://www.shindaiwa-usa.com/getattachment/9ee40453-a8f5-4647-988b-b20ebe5afe03
http://additives.shamrockoils.com/l...ibitor/rust-and-corrosion-inhibitor-1?print=1

Any corrections or info appreciated !

Stihl ultra is not JASO certified. Redbulls results with Ultra, that is to say pretty dirty make sense now, given its ashless.
Echo red armour is not ashless from what I can tell and it is Jaso certified, which confirms.

 

[bwalker]

TCW3 carry's a rating from API as TC which is jaso FA,FB
API TC+ is jaso FC,FB

Not true.

 

[bwalker]

While I agree with you 95% of the time, I don't think this has been "proven" here, only followed as a belief. There are many loggers who get many years of service from a chainsaw engine being run exclusively on tcw3 oil. I'm not saying it's recommended, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work well. I'd be willing to bet no one here, with enough experience to know for certain, has ever burned up a chainsaw engine because of running a tcw3 oil. Real world experience says quite the opposite. Evidence is not there to call them fools.

IME, non synthetic oils seem to preserve soft rubber replaceable parts and protect carb internals better than synthetics. Case in point: my 92 husky 51. Never had the cylinder cover off. Never a carb kit. Never a fuel or impulse hose replaced. It's had minimal use the last 10 years (20 hours a year), but to me, that's testament to my belief.

My 1995 stihl ts400 concrete saw had the same experience, although I did replace the fuel hose this past winter.

I've been trying some fd rated oils lately. They do seem to run cleaner (examining the exhaust port). And I'll continue to use them unless I'm replacing rubber parts next year. I use my saws daily or weekly and there's no way in hell I'm dumping out my mix after daily use. If I add up the hourly cost of me or employees dumping out fuel every time, replacing rubber parts because they're prematurely worn out, and all the apparent hassles of the AS crowd (that I've never experienced until coming here), them I'm going back to my cheap, and apparently highly effective, tcw3 oil.

Don't knock what you obviously haven't tried.

Windthrown is right.. and syn oils are no harder on rubber parts IME. I would worry about ethanol much more in that regard.

 

[bwalker]

bwalker said: ↑
Despite what they say, it's not suitable for a chainsaw. No OPE OEM reccomends or sells an ashless oil, as they are not optimal for air cooled engine.
Really how far do you have to go to remove all doubt about the lunacy of your debate?
It looks like the R&D departments of some leading global companies haven't been on a permanent holiday, like you have since the time when you should have lost your squeaky voice & your agate/s dropped. While your at it check up on the McMillan site as well, their stocks don't automatically come with pillar blocks, they can be ordered with or without & they don't recommend them as breach bedding is their preferred method, it's funny you call people liars when your living the lie.

I see you still want to continue to lie about Mcmillan stocks and are now trying to crawl away from your original statement...keep digging dumb azz.
And Ryobi is a real global leader...lmfao.

 

[NWCoaster]

Stihl ultra is not JASO certified. Redbulls results with Ultra, that is to say pretty dirty make sense now, given its ashless.
Echo red armour is not ashless from what I can tell and it is Jaso certified, which confirms.

It says JASO FB Certified on thier site.......http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf

 

[bwalker]

It says JASO FB Certified on thier site.......http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.p6df

If it is Jaso certified it will have a very number on the bottle. Ultra doesn't. I believe it uses the "meets jaso fb" verbage.

 

[bwalker]

Go to JASO'S website and look at their certified oils list. It isn't there.

 

[Trx250r180]

I went a whole weekend without using any 2 stroke oil

 

[Trx250r180]

Aw crap no i didn't i drilled 2 post hole with mobil mx2t 32 to 1 in my earthquake driller

I ran no saws though .....