a saw question

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ROLLACOSTA

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just been reading through a thread about modifiying chainsaws..ie getting more power into smaller lighter saws..for years iv'e only ever used standerd off the shelf saws..but after reading a thread about the subject i may invest in a moded 7900 dolmar maybe! i also remember using a friends moded 346 and wow what a differance it made..my question is do any or many of you ARBOS/CLIMBERS use these moded suped up saws?.and is it worth the hassle?
 
Rocky,
I think I remember you saying that you use the Echo 3400. Have you modded that saw, and if so were you pleased with the results?

Thanks
 
so far only 2 modified users but happy ones ...anyone had a bad exspirence with a moded saw..about saws cutting faster imo great on the ground ! but i am happy with the speed my saws cut when a loft ..another question what about saws lighter saws pulling bigger bars and chains surely the balance is a problem as im sure a 7900 was not designed to pull a 32 inch chain :confused:
 
Rolla,

I've run 32 inch bars on 044/372 class saws for many years, never a problem, especially in softwoods. But modded, they handle that length more easily. I know that my PP7900 would pull a 36 bar with ease, as I have run it with a 32 and 8 tooth sprocket. I, as most others here, do prefer 24 or 28 inch lengths for the above saw classes.

I have 11 modded saws, and a few where all that has been done are muffler mods.....stock saws just don't cut the mustard.
 
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RB what was actualy done to your pp7900 ?? just muffler mods??

i could do with a moded 346
[using an18 inch bar] and i would love to try a out a moded 7900 [using 20-26 bar] who makes or mods up your saws..i dont know of any saw builders at all in the uk..so i'd have to get a saw from over the water probably a little exspensive for shipping but hey you only live once:D
 
It is fully modded by Dozer Dan. Click on his name, or his page here as he is a sponsor. As well, try the search function here, type in a few keywords, you'll come in with a wealth of historical infor on all kinds of saws, mods, builders.

I have saws by Madsen's, Walker's, Dennis Greffard, Dan Henry, and Ed Heard. There's also Dave Neiger, KDHotsaw, JacobJ, Rupedoggy, and a few other guys that mod saws.
 
With newer saws, most of the gains will come from muffler mods. In other words do it yourself.
If you have extra money burning a hole in your pocket like me, then get the saw power ported.
The muffler mods are free because you can do them yourself and give you about 30% gain, some saws more, some less. The power porting will add another 10% or so in power and cost $150 to $300.
IMO, muffler mods add to the life of the saw.
A muffler modded saw is louder, and pollutes more by allowing more VOC's out, but allows the saw to run cooler.
 
I know Rocky will blast me on this one, but there are also legal issuses with a legitamate company using modified saws. If an employee was to get hurt or killed running an employers modified saw at work, it's just possible the employer would have huge liability problems.
 
Mike, I think you might be a little extravagant with the 30% gains for muffler modification only, tho some saws might gain that much. I think you are pretty light with saying power porting only gives 10% gain. That is not my experience with the 372 and 260 I had done. Gains from porting were an additional 25% plus on top of muffler modification. Cutting times were reduced by nearly a third, so horsepower increase is even more than the percentage change in cutting times. Do you still insist they MUST vibrate more too?

Frank
 
Yes, IMO, they vibrate more. I have no way to factually prove that, just twenty something years of running saws.
We opened up an 200t muffler and cutting times whent from 12 seconds for the stock saw, down to 6.9 seconds. No other changes. Same bar and chain.
Are you suggesting you could get that saw down to 4 seconds with some power porting?
Another example is the ms660. Ten minutes with a dremel does a world of good. Power porting will not add 25% to the gains the muffler mod did, not with out stroking or special fuels.
 
I respect Mike's experiences with ported saws. However, mine have been different. I have 7 ported saws ( 4 from Dan Henry 1 from Ken Dunn and 2 that I have done myself )I have not noticed any increase in vibration. I have opened up the muffler on all my saws and I think the 30% gains are a little optomistic. Personally, I feel that the money is well spent. But then that is just me!
 
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Mike, not 4 seconds, but about 5. That 5 second reduction in cutting time with the 200t is impressive. Carb adjustment and a few other factors can have a big influence too. I dont think that across the board you could expect that to be typical in a controlled experiment. I am quite convinced I saw 25% reduction in cutting times on my saws due to porting alone, of course I have a reputation for being quite gullible as you know. Lol!

Frank
 
Originally posted by Crofter
I am quite convinced I saw 25% reduction in cutting times on my saws due to porting alone,

Frank

For carification, first you did the muffler mod and got some unknown improvment, then you ported it and got another 25%???
Or did you port a saw with a stock muffler?

I suspect you did the porting and muffler at the same time and got 25% total.
In other words your porting cost 5% of the 30% you should have gotten with the muffler mod.
Really you need to port and do the muffler at the same time, for best results. Then what caused the increase? The hard part, of course, porting...NOT. It's the exaust.
 
I just yank the spark arresters out. Simple fix. It gives a slight performance boost, but nothing sugnificant. I would feel comfortable using a turbo-saw in a tree, but would be a little bit leary sending one of my guys up in a tree with one. Stock saws work great for most situations, but there are times when you just wanna roll full tilt boogie woogie for freedom and justice. MB may like that quote, but he cant use it unless he supplys me with a case of beer per week. LOL

Kenn
 
Originally posted by Mike Maas
For carification, first you did the muffler mod and got some unknown improvment, then you ported it and got another 25%???
Or did you port a saw with a stock muffler?

I suspect you did the porting and muffler at the same time and got 25% total.
In other words your porting cost 5% of the 30% you should have gotten with the muffler mod.
Really you need to port and do the muffler at the same time, for best results. Then what caused the increase? The hard part, of course, porting...NOT. It's the exaust.

Mike, it seems a bit obvious that you dont think modifying a saw is worth while! I won't try to change your mind.
For those interested, my son and I bought 2 new 260 Stihl with fully adj. carbs. We separately opened the exhaust openings and port matched the muffler to jug. Improvements were on the plus side of 20 % reduction in cut times. Since then both saws have cut a winters wood. We have raced them together a few times, but he was on .325 and me on 3/8 square. This spring after having my saw spanked by Stihlman 36's 026 that he modified himself, I decided to send it to EHP for modification. The difference after was pretty obvious. I got together with my son and we compared the two saws again. I set both saws to same carb richness and we used the same bar and chain swapped back and forth. We used regular new standard round chain as well as my competition chain. The muffler only modded saw was 2.06 seconds in 8 1/2 poplar, the EHP260 1.55 seconds. Larger wood would have given a greater spread but the percentage is there. For comparison the cut times for an 066 and a 372EHP on the same wood was 1.06 seconds.
Some of the initial reports of modification improvments with the 026 were not that terrific; Ed did say a couple of times that he was going back in for more. Some saws have one obvious bottleneck and others need attention to a number of areas to get good gains.
Mike is correct in saying that muffler modification is quick and cheap gains and if that is all you need, be happy! I know there is more to be had. That does cost money.

Frank
 
Why do guys testing cutting times always cut little tiny sticks that only take a second or two to cut?
It seems to me timing error can be up to a half a second or more, unless your video taping it with high speed film. Wouldn't it make more sense to cut a log that takes 5 or 10 seconds to get through? That way the different times would actually mean something.
And why use poplar? Wouldn't an Oak or Hickory cant work better. My guess is it looks more impressive.
My comments are backed up by the cutting times Crofter gave showing an 066 and moded 372 less than a half a second faster than the 026. If you've cut with these saws, you know there is no comparing them. Put these saws into a 30" log, then come back with some times.

Originally posted by Crofter
Mike is correct in saying that muffler modification is quick and cheap gains and if that is all you need, be happy! I know there is more to be had. That does cost money.

Frank

This is the jist of my previous post. Muffler mods give big gains for cheap. After that the gains get harder and harder to achieve, more and more expensive too.
 
Originally posted by Mike Maas
Put these saws into a 30" log, then come back with some times.


I think it would be wise to stick with wood around the 16-18" size. Having to overbuck, especially with an 026 leads to more variables in cut times. Plus who uses an 026 in that size wood all the time anyways?


Stick to what you cut with the saw in question.
 
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Originally posted by Mike Maas
[Why do guys testing cutting times always cut little tiny sticks that only take a second or two to cut?]

Mike you have to put them up on stands; for most people that means by hand. You also go thru a lot of wood. Once you start cutting with the nose you throw in other variables. You can make a chain that will bore and nose cut well too, but that is a whole nother ball game!

[It seems to me timing error can be up to a half a second or more, unless your video taping it with high speed film. Wouldn't it make more sense to cut a log that takes 5 or 10 seconds to get through? That way the different times would actually mean something.]

It is obvious to anyone who has used a stopwatch and compared times when several others were timing the same cut that you are a way wrong there Mike. Any way I average a lot of cuts when I am developing something I want an answer on.


[And why use poplar? Wouldn't an Oak or Hickory cant work better. My guess is it looks more impressive.]

Mike you have never used a competition chain either or you wouldnt be suggesting Oak. I use poplar becaue I am comparing times from competitions using that wood to see where I am. It is easy to spend 20 or more hours on a 16 inch chain when you are trying something new.

[My comments are backed up by the cutting times Crofter gave showing an 066 and moded 372 less than a half a second faster than the 026. If you've cut with these saws, you know there is no comparing them. Put these saws into a 30" log, then come back with some times.]

Mike are you suggesting putting the 026 on 30 inch wood? Sometimes I wonder about you ! If you read my original on the other thread, I said that the 066 and 372 would have been able to handle more aggressive chain and the 66 more sprocket or bigger wood to harness their power. By using the other saws and switching different operators and timers we were doing everything to eliminate operator cutting style and timer differences. My mission was to learn, not to deceive. If you want times for a ported 372 or muffler modded 066 on big wood, go to Eds post on Powering a 36 inch Bar. I have every reason to believe the accuracy of his times. Why dont you sharpen up a saw and tell him to get some big wood ready!


[This is the jist of my previous post. Muffler mods give big gains for cheap. After that the gains get harder and harder to achieve, more and more expensive too.]

I have no problem with the above. What I took issue with originally was you telling someone that motor modification would only yield 10% gain in power.


Mike I think you are secretly jealous of Rocky J Squirrels power ported saws. He might let you try one you know if you sucked up a bit! Lol!

Frank
 
modded saws

I have a half dozen modded saws and you can tell the power difference over stock the first time you use one. Power ported saws cut faster, run better, are easier to start and save you time. They will make cuts that would stop a stock saw. The 7900 will do just fine with a 32" bar in hardwood, mine does, though I like it with the 24" bar for most work, bigger wood calls for bigger bars and the PP7900s Dan did for me have the power to run the longer bars. If you are not good at handling a saw, power porting is not going to improve your handling. They are not just faster, so if you make mistakes with a stock saw you'll make them faster with a modded saw.
 
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