Advice on Purchasing a New Chain Saw

[TNTreeHugger]

@TNTreeHugger ,

Very good info has been given sofar. I will allow myself to include the way I see what is needed for a person like you. First off I like your methodical and analytical way to going to things.

What do I recomend?

I would not start at the lower end of the power & price range. For garden use the power will surely be sufficient, but over the long range I would take something a bit more powerful and higher quality. I would start with at least 35cc/2.3hp = Stihl 211. It is the minimum were also larger limbs or smaller trees can be easily tackled.

Further a 14 inch bar is more than enough for limbs/tree's up to 26 inch in diametre! The problem is all to often that people here believe that one has to be able to only cut from one side. Also when viewing many of the videos presented it is all too clear that many have no idea of proper cutting techniques. The length of 14 to 16 inches is about ideal in homeowner setting and enough for about all scenarios a homeowner may encounter.

What alternativ models are out there?

For me the absolut top model I recomend to ALL homeowners and small level firewood cutters is the Dolmar 421. It is in my eyes by far the best bargain out there. Easy start, balance, pro build, power, etc. all add up to one of the best packages for your need. For online purchase from one of the site sponsers I would recomend @fordf150 or @166. Alternative with Dolmar would be the ps35 or ps351. Although these models are for me only a lesser compromise.

With Stihl the 211, 231 or 251 are the equivalent models. Pricewise I see Stihl as pretty high comparing to other brands. Although you are always also paying for the dealer network. If that is worth it for you, one must always deside for oneself.

Echo belongs to the brands that should be definately included. I will admit that I am not sure about the proper model names that would be equivalent. The economy model 490 has recieved here a lot of positive echo.

Husqvarna is another top brand that would fit just as well in your search. Beginning with the 435 & 440 models.

Personally I have had very good experience with Hitachi/Tanaka and see the Hitachi CS40EA model as an viable option.

Would I be unhappy with any of the above mentioned models or brands?

NO! The differences are minor and much more user individual. Any pro will be faster with a lesser saw because he knows correct cutting techniques, how and when to sharpen the chain correctly, how to set the carb, etc. All these factors will be far superior at the end of the day compared to any "super magic saw" which is a few seconds faster in a single cut!
Personally I prefer to get the most for my money and this would be in the above, in my eyes the Dolmar 421, but any model will fullfill the task well.

Extras:
Extra chain is a must! Stihl or oregon chain will both serve very well as long as the chain is sharp!
Bar oil? I would stay with mineral oil. Why? Because in seldom use it causes usually never problems compared to "bio" oil.
Fuel? Definately go with premix! Brand type is totally irrelevant! The carb should be set for the type of fuel used!!! DON'T mix premix with gas station mix! Your saw can potentially die!
Sharpening system? I prefer the husqvarna roller file system. Just be certain to get the correct size.

PPE = personal protection equipment
DEFINATELY get some! Chaps, helmet with eye and ear protection and some chainsaw boots are all SUPER CHEAP compared to a visit to the hospital and income loss due to sick leave! For the homeowner type saws mentioned above the lowest class of chap security is enough! Pricewise for a complete set you can calculate around 100- 150$.

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TY so much for taking the time to respond - with so much detailed info.
I checked the Dolmar 421 and there isn't a dealer near me, closest one is about 50 miles. I'd rather buy something from a dealer close by.
I think I will take your advice though and pass on the 180 and go with the 211.
I'm not in a hurry, the trimming can wait, so I have plenty of time to think about it and go over all the pros & cons of my options.

Thanks again, everyone, for your advice. I'll keep you posted on my progress... in case anyone is interested.

 

[Michigan Escapee]

Sure, you might not NEED it until fall, but think of all the fun you could have now by buying one, and piss revving it for 10 minutes every morning at 6:30. You know, for like, tool familiarity, break in, and all.

 

[Homeowner]

Sure, you might not NEED it until fall, but think of all the fun you could have now by buying one, and piss revving it for 10 minutes every morning at 6:30. You know, for like, tool familiarity, break in, and all.

This morning I started my chainsaw 1am, best time to work, there are no gnats during the night, temps are cool and nights are as bright as days are at darkest time of year.
Then continued with string trimmer and lawn mower as temps got around freezing, kept working until sun got up and it started to be too much over freezing temps for me.

Anything above 50F is too hot to do any physical work and prefer 40F or below, even chainsaws run much cooler at these temps.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Sure, you might not NEED it until fall, but think of all the fun you could have now by buying one, and piss revving it for 10 minutes every morning at 6:30. You know, for like, tool familiarity, break in, and all.

Good point.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I'm back and forth on buying a chain saw. I finished the first half of the book today, the part about using it safely, how it runs and maintenance.
I could probably do this.
But! On reading the list of useful tools I saw an ax. I have an ax. It's dull as dirt, but it's an ax. Then I saw the hand pruning saw.
I'm thinking a good sharp ax and a good quality hand saw are all I need for now.
If I should have storm damage that requires a larger, more powerful tool, I'm pretty confident I can handle a chain saw. I'm going to study up on it some more and watch some Youtube tutorials on using a chain saw, but for now, I think the chain saw is going on the back burner.

Now I need to learn how to sharpen an ax.

 

[Homeowner]

I'm back and forth on buying a chain saw. I finished the first half of the book today, the part about using it safely, how it runs and maintenance.
I could probably do this.
But! On reading the list of useful tools I saw an ax. I have an ax. It's dull as dirt, but it's an ax. Then I saw the hand pruning saw.
I'm thinking a good sharp ax and a good quality hand saw are all I need for now.
If I should have storm damage that requires a larger, more powerful tool, I'm pretty confident I can handle a chain saw. I'm going to study up on it some more and watch some Youtube tutorials on using a chain saw, but for now, I think the chain saw is going on the back burner.

Now I need to learn how to sharpen an ax.

Before deciding, try sawing something typical size with hand saw, it becomes quite taunting very quickly when number of cuts or/and diameter of cut goes up.

Same with the axe, it is easy to chop branch size of index finger, but do 5 wrist thick branches and you wish to have chainsaw.

I do still use axe sometimes when pruning, also hand saw and tool I don't know what is called in English, but with chainsaw it is not as much a workout and burning forearms.

Anyway, for sharpening an axe, check my post with pics in this thread to get basic idea:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/are-all-axes-created-equal.297677/

Also you can see tool that I don't know what it is called English in pic that has word vesuri in it, that is lot better for pruning than axe or saw and can fell small trees faster than axe, but causes even more burn to forearms.

 

[GeorgiaVol]

This morning I started my chainsaw 1am, best time to work, there are no gnats during the night, temps are cool and nights are as bright as days are at darkest time of year.
Then continued with string trimmer and lawn mower as temps got around freezing, kept working until sun got up and it started to be too much over freezing temps for me.

Anything above 50F is too hot to do any physical work and prefer 40F or below, even chainsaws run much cooler at these temps.

Wow! If I had to wait for that scenario I could only work about 5 or 6 days a year!

 

[Homeowner]

Wow! If I had to wait for that scenario I could only work about 5 or 6 days a year!

During 2-3 months there are maybe 50-60% of days that I find temp bit high and feeling better working during the night, rest of the months are a lot better in temperature wise.

Last winter I tried to use Husky at -33F, but it did not want, had to keep it under the bed, then it tried, but would not run properly even with taped cooling holes, so had to resort to hand saw to get 3ft long halved logs into firewood size.

There are so few warm days and I'm so slow to adapt to warm temps, that tend to skip those warmer parts of those days.

At -40F it starts to be bit cold to ride with bicycle though, chain does not like to go around

 

[TNTreeHugger]

During 2-3 months there are maybe 50-60% of days that I find temp bit high and feeling better working during the night, rest of the months are a lot better in temperature wise.

Last winter I tried to use Husky at -33F, but it did not want, had to keep it under the bed, then it tried, but would not run properly even with taped cooling holes, so had to resort to hand saw to get 3ft long halved logs into firewood size.

There are so few warm days and I'm so slow to adapt to warm temps, that tend to skip those warmer parts of those days.

At -40F it starts to be bit cold to ride with bicycle though, chain does not like to go around

Crazy!!!

You would melt here - past several days upper 90s.

 

[Homeowner]

Crazy!!!

You would melt here - past several days upper 90s.

Upper 90s are such that I doubt I could even move at all, we had few days over 75 and all I could do was stay indoors and lie still, despite indoors being naturally at 65

I doubt my little Husky would of lasted as long as it did if I would of used it same way with temps over 90s, you see with that little husky 12" pine felling and limbing was one tank of gas, cutting it to rounds was 2 tanks of gas and once I did 7 of such trees only stopping to filling oil and gas, some filing to chain, that was well more than 5 hours saw screaming it's bearings off alone, full throttle, full rpm.
I'm not sure but small saws might have bit harder time on hotter climate if put to such stress?

I could get 15 to 20 minutes from full tank of gas. Ignition unit failed shortly after that, probably because of the heating up. Temps were under 60 when I did that job, so I'm just thinking if using saw at temps of 90s and above, maybe bigger model would last longer?

That Husky (it is also in pic on left along with trees I cut then) was 38cc and around 2hp, freetime saw it was called, so certainly not meant for that kind of job.

e: For comparison, last night here it was 36F and now (at 3pm) 55F, might be bit cool for your liking

 

[GeorgiaVol]

Yeah I like to start work with temps down to at least 80. By the time it hits 95 with our humidity you can't do much for long. So I'm usually done for the day and retreated indoors by 1 or 2pm.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Upper 90s are such that I doubt I could even move at all, we had few days over 75 and all I could do was stay indoors and lie still, despite indoors being naturally at 65

I doubt my little Husky would of lasted as long as it did if I would of used it same way with temps over 90s, you see with that little husky 12" pine felling and limbing was one tank of gas, cutting it to rounds was 2 tanks of gas and once I did 7 of such trees only stopping to filling oil and gas, some filing to chain, that was well more than 5 hours saw screaming it's bearings off alone, full throttle, full rpm.
I'm not sure but small saws might have bit harder time on hotter climate if put to such stress?

I could get 15 to 20 minutes from full tank of gas. Ignition unit failed shortly after that, probably because of the heating up. Temps were under 60 when I did that job, so I'm just thinking if using saw at temps of 90s and above, maybe bigger model would last longer?

That Husky (it is also in pic on left along with trees I cut then) was 38cc and around 2hp, freetime saw it was called, so certainly not meant for that kind of job.

e: For comparison, last night here it was 36F and now (at 3pm) 55F, might be bit cool for your liking

You sound more like a "Thor" than a "Homeowner."

 

[Michigan Escapee]

Well now, in the field of weird and wonderful tools is this thing called a Bow Saw, which is good for small cuts of 5-6 inches.

Those are maybe $8-$40 depending on how fancy you wanna get. Just make sure to get replacement blades at the time of purchase.
As seemingly simple as it looks, it CAN be more dangerous than a chainsaw, axe, or other types of saw, at least as far as minor cuts, snapping the blade, getting it stuck, the resulting swearing, and going insane trying to get it unstuck.

Also buy a bottle of 80-90 gear oil, oiling the blade helps it from sticking, and keeps it from corroding, being gunked up etc. And if the blade gets stuck, pop the level, load a new blade, and try a different cut.

In theory you can do cuts of maybe 15-20 inches once you know what you're doing, I wouldn't bother, as this usually results in problems. Like being unable to chainsaw the tree around that spot if you have 4-5 stuck bowsaw blades in it.

As to sharpening bowsaw blades, probably it's possible, I wouldn't bother since you can get like 10 blades for $8-9. Usually kinks in bowsaw blades is what does em in anyway.

Good news/bad news is, the kerf, or width is super slim, meaning it takes less effort to cut. You can cut a branch back to nothing, so that it'll grow over the wound like nothing(just don't tar over it). But with a thin kerf, as you get in deeper, gum, resin, water, will increase resistance. You also can't cut in a way where you might get the blade pinched. With a chainsaw, kerf is wide enough that you can wedge it to avoid pinching. A wedge narrow enough for a bow saw is a bit impractical, and would mung things up enough that you couldn't back the saw out without popping the lever, and using vice grips to pull the blade.

As for axes, this is where we get into fun. As in crazy making fun. Some axes are good for splitting vs chopping, vs limbing. The difference is usually in the grind. For as FAST limbing axe, you might be best with a hollow grind. Similar to this picture.

As you can see, plenty of variations. The more hollow grind surface on the axe, the less resistance, and also less lifespan of axe, and more proneness to bendage/breakage. The more manly man muscle you have, the less hollow grind you need as you can just spall/chip off wood rather than cutting. With more of a cutting strike, you may have to alter your pitch to make chips, etc.

Technique in using an axe, machete, and other similar tools is also a bit of a trick. You accelerate, but do not follow through as the axe already has the momentum in needs for the strike, so the last 2-8 inches of your swing is going to be using the muscles to aim/pivot the axe, and you should have your arm partially relaxed once the axe bites into the wood. Trying to follow through gets you nothing but carple tunnel in a hurry. lol!

And after 30-60 minutes of chopping, you'll soon understand why a chainsaw is so much much better for this kind of crap.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I was looking at bow saws yesterday, but there were too many choices on the shape of the handle, I gave up. Does the handle shape matter?
So, I could use my pruning saw on smaller limbs and branches, say, up to 3" and use the bow saw for those larger, say, up to 5"-6"?
Buy extra blades, don't bother to sharpen them. Spritz oil when using. Got it.

As for the ax, don't plan on doing any splitting for fire wood. Don't plan on taking down large trees. When you say, "liming" do you mean whacking the limbs off a fallen tree, or off a standing tree?

I can definitely see when a chain saw would be the more logical choice, but I just don't have a need for one just now. $400 for the saw, another $200 for PPE, and I can have a nice assortment of hand tools for quite a bit less.

No manly muscles here, but I do enjoy working hard in the yard... and it is never-ending here.

 

[Homeowner]

My chainsaw was 199 and PPE 90, but good chaps to that adds close to 100 more to it, but yes, it does cost quite a bit.

I have one bow saw blade that is from 1960's and it is fast, it cuts without an effort and is really fast, it does not matter which of 3 bow saw frame I put that blade.

Then I have bought new ones, I think those were from Bahco brand, very slow and takes more effort to cut that that bit rusty old blade.

I have a lot of those old blades that I would need to restore and sharpen, I just need new glasses as it is impossible to sharpen saw blade without seeing well.

You have the tools already, I doubt new axe will be better than what you have now, you just need to try them out and then you will know if it is something you could get away with or if you need something faster.

 

[7sleeper]

This is what you want as a hand saw! Absolut top of the line!

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/silky-saw

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[TNTreeHugger]

This is what you want as a hand saw! Absolut top of the line!

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/silky-saw

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I was looking at those yesterday... also these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Husqvarna-F...953311?hash=item566de5a25f:g:ztEAAOSwnDxUh73k
I'd much rather buy from Husqvarna than from Japan (and have to deal with over seas shipping). Is there a difference between the two?

 

[GeorgiaVol]

Well now, in the field of weird and wonderful tools is this thing called a Bow Saw, which is good for small cuts of 5-6 inches.

Ahhhhh, the lovely bow saw, my first saw I used back when I was a cub scout. Many a scars on my left hand from using that tool. For small limbs and brush I prefer a machete. Cheap, easy to sharpen, doesn't wear you out. Just gotta keep your other hand out of the way. Can cut 1 inch limbs in one good wack once you get the hang of it. Larger ones don't take too long either.

 

[7sleeper]

I was looking at those yesterday... also these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Husqvarna-F...953311?hash=item566de5a25f:g:ztEAAOSwnDxUh73k
I'd much rather buy from Husqvarna than from Japan (and have to deal with over seas shipping). Is there a difference between the two?

There is nothing better out there than Silky! On smaller limbs you are easily as fast as a chainsaw. There are so many "look a likes" out there but NONE have the quality of a Silky.

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[7sleeper]

Here is btw the US distibuter price.

http://www.silkysaws.com/Silky_Saws/Curved_2

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