Another Bore Cut?

[CapitaineHaddoc]

For leaners this cut is a good option. I've had good luck with the V version. It seems easier to line up the cuts than the T.
HuskStihl and rwoods both give good advice but for a more detailed explanation on falling techniques check out the Forestry and Logging threads. There are people there who make their living cutting trees.

This is an interesting post, our falling techniques are very different, but sometimes i'm using westcoasters techniques, for fun. Humbolt and swanson are forbidden here, but i often use the swanson.

Question about the bore cuts, i never see a westcoaster faller practicing a "heart bore cut", is this technique forbidden? We use it a lot, especially with dangerous beechwoods, or for the biggest trees.

 

[Trx250r180]

Plan? There is a plan for this?

How did it sound ?

 

[madhatte]

How did it sound ?

Guessing:

BONK BONK splat BONK BONK splat BONK BONK

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Just chiming in on the tongue and groove, I use it a lot. Very handy for 12" and under where you don't have room to chase your bar with a wedge in the backcut.Done properly, you still have good holding wood. That being said, it's definitely not a 101 technique.

 

[Ambull01]

Just chiming in on the tongue and groove, I use it a lot. Very handy for 12" and under where you don't have room to chase your bar with a wedge in the backcut.Done properly, you still have good holding wood. That being said, it's definitely not a 101 technique.

What's the benefit with doing the tongue and groove vs using the front portion of the bar to cut leaving a portion of wood on one side (so you can insert a wedge in the portion you cut). Not sure how to describe it, saw and read it in the BC Faller pdfs)? Seems like the tongue and groove would be more difficult and time consuming. You have more cuts to line up therefore more chance to screw something up.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

As I was saying, it has its uses in smaller diameter wood, where there isn't room to get a wedge in.

 

[Ambull01]

As I was saying, it has its uses in smaller diameter wood, where there isn't room to get a wedge in.

I see. I kind of like the theory behind different cuts (i.e. situations that determine best face cuts, back cuts, etc).

For small diameter, I think I'll stick to these:
Humbolt backcut on small diameter tree

If the tree is really small, I could probably just push the damn thing over.

 

[Gologit]

Plan? There is a plan for this?

Sattley area? South of Cisco Grove up toward the high lakes maybe?

 

[slowp]

Don't hurry. Most of us are not and will never have to do production falling. Thank goodness!

 

[RandyMac]

Sattley area? South of Cisco Grove up toward the high lakes maybe?

just up the hill and North of Sattely, about 5800 feet elevation. Typical OG White Fir, I knew it was rotten, the vertical splits were not in the plan. It started over early, just kinda collapsed in mid air, made a ripping, crunching noise, with some squeaking. The old cedars there were all hard shells, we took every one, I just love multi-specie select cuts.

 

[rwoods]

Just chiming in on the tongue and groove, I use it a lot. Very handy for 12" and under where you don't have room to chase your bar with a wedge in the backcut.Done properly, you still have good holding wood. That being said, it's definitely not a 101 technique.

JL, hope you are mending well.

Please take my armchair comments and questions for what they are - just those of an overly curious mind and a concern for ones tempted to try tongue and groove without any explanation as to its intended use/purpose. It seems to me that to consistently safely execute the tongue and groove cut you need the deftness of a true tree surgeon on the side cuts, an easy to split wood and a thick wedge. And preferably a narrow bar and a stem that won't hurt anything if it breaks free from the stump prematurely. I understand the "where else can I put a wedge" idea, but I am having trouble with a real need application. And with any use of this cut on a heavy canopy tree. On what sorts of species do you use this cut? Circumstances? What type wedge and saw bar are you using?

Thanks,

Ron

 

[HuskStihl]

This is an interesting post, our falling techniques are very different, but sometimes i'm using westcoasters techniques, for fun. Humbolt and swanson are forbidden here, but i often use the swanson.

Question about the bore cuts, i never see a westcoaster faller practicing a "heart bore cut", is this technique forbidden? We use it a lot, especially with dangerous beechwoods, or for the biggest trees.

Guillaume,
Do you mean boring the heartwood out thru the center of your face? If so, two of the eastern hardwood fallers on here seem to like that technique for leaners/reducing pull

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

Guillaume,
Do you mean boring the heartwood out thru the center of your face? If so, two of the eastern hardwood fallers on here seem to like that technique for leaners/reducing pull

Yep, that's what i'm saying. Not only for leaned hardwood, but to put down big trees withs short bars. The ground is really steep in my area, and taking 2 saws (1 for limbing and 1 for falling) is not the best option. For the most leaned and dangerous trees, like ashwood or beechwood, i made a triple bore cut.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Hey Ron,
I'm mending slowly, thanks.

The t&g is definitely a specialty cut. Not 101. I would say I mostly use it in clearing and thinning situations; run into a little back leaner, 6-12" dbh, 30- 50' tall. Too big to just push over, not worth grabbing another guy with a pike pole or rope.As far as the cuts go, it's basically like doing a t style coos bay with the addition of the bore for the wedge.
As far as b/c and wedges, I always carry a 6" wedge for small trees. Bar and chain doesn't really matter since you're just using the tip anyway.
As far as tree type goes, it works fine in about any wood, I just make a bigger tongue in softwood, a smaller tongue in hardwood.

 

[rwoods]

JL, thanks for taking time to explain. The wedge I assume is also doing the work of the back cut on cutting the leg off the "T".

In the video, it looked to me like there is no "T" just a tongue and a groove. Without a T there is no hinge beyond the sides of the tongue which is being sheared by the lifting action of the wedge. I went back and watched the video again and I can now see in the stump picture that he did indeed leave a thin hinge; I missed it before. Seeing the "T" I'll retract my trash cut comment.

I've have had less than good success with the back cut first approach on small back leaners but I don't believe I have the steady hands to execute a T with a sufficient hinge on small trees.

I'm glad you're on the mend. Ron

 

[RandyMac]

It is hard for me to be serious with threads of this nature, on this site. I lack patience and tolerance and often consider instruction with this type of format nearly worthless in regards to timber falling/bucking. The vast scope of techniques, the regional differences, make it nearly impossible for the raw beginner and most of the intermediate members, to get a firm grip on advanced, hazardous practices.

take two sniped block-cuts and call me in the morning.

 

[rwoods]

Well said, RandyMac. As illustrated by the T&G video, it is hard for someone like me to figure out what is is what. I have seen the video many times and have been a frequent critic, today is the first time that I noticed there actually was a hinge and that was only after JL stated the "T" comparison. The side cuts had always looked to me to have overshot the undercut. I for one am thankful for what patience you guys who do know better have shown the rest of us. I'll be better in the morning. Ron

 

[MCW]

What's the benefit of it? Less chance of it rolling/falling in an unintended direction?

That cut is generally only used on small trees where you don't have enough trunk diameter to fit a wedge in using a standard cut. I've used it a bit but it's risky on species with brittle wood as you are reducing your hinge diameter by up to a third in some cases. Not the sort of cut you want to do on a small back leaning Eucalypt. SNAP and it goes over backwards.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Exactly right. It can be handy in the right situation, but there's no doubt it's a fairly advanced higherrisk cut, and you want some pretty good holding wood.
I guess another note, your bore can be made from the back to preserve the heart of the hinge, just takes a steady hand.

 

[David (saltas)]

There are large palms with soft centers that sag
these will pinch a bar even with a wedge.
the tong and groove lets you cut out most of the center and the sides act like having wedges all the way aground.
the hinge that was hard to see in that video was almost not a hinge.
In these pics I cocked it up and missed low with the first bore plunge, corrected
the hinge on this was very anorexic only 1/2 inch