I tried to sharpen one with 72 dl. I think I used up 4 files on the one sharpening
Are Carbide Chains Worth the Extra Cost?
- Thread starter JimmyT
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
I've got a Stihl diamond grinding wheel to do the Stihl carbide chains on my USG.
I got a 25ft. roll of the Stihl carbide chain 3/8 around 1995 and made it into 72 drive link loops. I still have one that has never been used. It cost as much as a 100 ft. roll of RS.
The problem with the carbide is that the carbide chips easily if it hits something solid like a nail, etc. The rough edge that is left still grinds through stuff though and that may be why rescue units use it.
Carbide dust is something to be very careful with.
Carbide saw chain is not for me.
I got a 25ft. roll of the Stihl carbide chain 3/8 around 1995 and made it into 72 drive link loops. I still have one that has never been used. It cost as much as a 100 ft. roll of RS.
The problem with the carbide is that the carbide chips easily if it hits something solid like a nail, etc. The rough edge that is left still grinds through stuff though and that may be why rescue units use it.
Carbide dust is something to be very careful with.
Carbide saw chain is not for me.
user 188535
Chainsaw-wielding middle-schooler
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2023
- Messages
- 1,033
- Reaction score
- 1,120
Well. The RDR and RD3 are diffrent. The RD3 is designed for treated wood, dirty wood, and stumps. The RDR is designed for cutting wood, glass, bricks, metal, tempered security glass, wood with nails, and pretty much anything else rescue teams would need to cut. The one on the right is the rescue chain while the one on the left is the RD3.
Attachments
I skipped most of the comments, for reasons
Last I checked, there were 2 types of carbide chains, the homeowner grade and the FIRE EMS grade, outwardly they are about the same, only one is like 10x more expensive...
Anyway, for dirty grubby wood the carbide homeowner chains hold up very well, they don't cut as good as a good sharp steel chain, but they don't seem to get dull.
Used one chain to limb 4-5 loads of beach sand filled spruce/fir/cedar, and 2 years later, its still as sharp as day one. (I went through 8 regular chains in the first 4 hours of that job...)
For the average homeowner firewood guy, the cost isn't really worth it, unless you are forced to cut through mud and debris...
They don't like rocks, so don't expect miracles either, though I hear they will hammer through the odd nail without an issue.
about 10 years or so ago, they were handing out MS461R's with carbide chains for the rescue/recovery folks at the Oso Slide... them folks cut some ugly damned wood and the chains held up (it was and still is a mess...) (I did not take part, but know many folks that did, and more then a few that didn't survive)
Carbide chain experience from the real world.
As to cutting off the stump and firewood, the chain will dull almost as fast as a regular chain in dirty conditions. When it hits something hard the teeth are prone to break off. Sawyers in this area will switch to round tooth chain in muddy conditions.
As to fire departments the same is true due to cost. It is all volunteer departments in this area. Multiple chains are kept in stock. No one has a diamond wheel sharpener that I know of. This is where a round tooth chain with kickback guard links actually works well.
It just comes down to cost effectiveness for what you are doing.
As to cutting off the stump and firewood, the chain will dull almost as fast as a regular chain in dirty conditions. When it hits something hard the teeth are prone to break off. Sawyers in this area will switch to round tooth chain in muddy conditions.
As to fire departments the same is true due to cost. It is all volunteer departments in this area. Multiple chains are kept in stock. No one has a diamond wheel sharpener that I know of. This is where a round tooth chain with kickback guard links actually works well.
It just comes down to cost effectiveness for what you are doing.
Hermio
Addicted to ArboristSite
A couple of years ago Project Farm tested various chains. The carbide chain was by far the slowest of the lot. But it held up better cutting through boards that had sand glued to them. It only takes a few minutes to sharpen a steel chain, and it cuts about twice as fast. So, I think it makes sense to stick with steel unless you are cutting through rooftops with shingles on them.
I run carbide on most of my saws but my operating environment is different than most folks. I’m frequently loaning my saws to people who are doing volunteer work cleaning up drift wood, burned over trees, etc - dirty work and inexperienced sawyers. I had one guy who was using the saw to cut roots under ground! My experience is they are a wash on cost but save you LOTS of time.
Husky77
ArboristSite Operative
Back in the 70's when I was young and thought I knew everything. An old foreman in a mill told me they are not sharper they just stay blunt longer.
Never used a tungsten carbide tipped chain so cant coment on them. As a rescue tool probably ideal.
Never used a tungsten carbide tipped chain so cant coment on them. As a rescue tool probably ideal.
Who wants to get some? about $100 three ways for one loop and a section with 6 spare right and left c;utters?
Franny K. All I cut is firewood but about 5 years ago I was helping a neighbor cut a 42" red oak that was near the road. I was using my Dolmar 7900 with a 28" bar. I had bad vibes about cutting a tree right on the side of the road. I hit nails that probably supported a sign most likely from the 1930's because they were deep. So I ruined two 28" chains and I still remember the price $41.25 for each chain.
I've got a couple of carbide chains. I think that they are the correct tool for the job occasionally but you shouldn't really compare them to normal chain. You can get a decent edge on them but they never cut really well.
Sharpening with a diamond file on a dremel is slow but easy. Cost 10 dollars (get a decent one, not the cheap chinese ones)
So I seldom use them but when I do they are invaluable. When would that be?
Cutting small trees at ground level - we call it coppicing in UK, so that they grow back and are cut every 7-10 years.
I had a job to get out 10 overgrown stumps from laurel hedging. So cutting below ground and nothing bigger than 6". The saw cut as well at the end after 2 days work as at the beginning. Yes if you hit metal they will crack off.
So not a replacement for square ground full chisel but a different tool in the toolbox.
Sharpening with a diamond file on a dremel is slow but easy. Cost 10 dollars (get a decent one, not the cheap chinese ones)
So I seldom use them but when I do they are invaluable. When would that be?
Cutting small trees at ground level - we call it coppicing in UK, so that they grow back and are cut every 7-10 years.
I had a job to get out 10 overgrown stumps from laurel hedging. So cutting below ground and nothing bigger than 6". The saw cut as well at the end after 2 days work as at the beginning. Yes if you hit metal they will crack off.
So not a replacement for square ground full chisel but a different tool in the toolbox.
If they stretch like every other chain, then you would run out of adjustment long before they wear out. I run out of adjustment on regular chains long before the teeth wear down to the point they are worn out. My bet is the same will happen with a carbide chain.
I have been running Stihl 33RD3-72 carbide chains for many years. When I moved from Husqvarna and Homelite to Stihl, I decided to try the 33RD3 chain. These chains will cut your finger if you touch the cutters when new. I no longer care if I hit the ground or cut dirty wood. All the things that would dull a regular chain. I cut firewood to help heat my home. It is almost all dead ash, red oak, hickory and maple. I cut all my stumps off at ground level and do not care if I hit the dirt. I use 2 chains that I have sharpened at Ace Hardware in the fall and cut with them all year. All of my saws have been converted to 3/8 .050 so I can interchange bars and chains. Last fall I purchased a 33RD3-84 and Oregon bar for a few larger trees I needed to cut. I have only cut up a live hickory with it and it is still razor sharp. I do have a new, never used, spare carbide chain just in case something happens and it is needed.
There is one drawback to using carbide. Recently a friend wanted me to compare his MS261 to mine. He was running a .325 .063 20" RS chain. I needed to be careful I did not hit the dirt. I did not notice any real difference between the saws. I did hand it back after about 10 cuts. I did not want the stress of making sure I did not hit the dirt. Before using carbide chains, not hitting the dirt was just a normal part of cutting wood. I am spoiled now.
I have read posts stating the carbide chain cuts slowly. That is not what I experience. I do not take a stop watch with me when I cut firewood, but if it is slower, I do not notice it. Others cutting firewood with me are always asking, "how does your saw cut so fast". I do not know the condition of their saws. I am guessing they don't keep their chains as sharp as they should. I no longer need to worry about touching up my chain every few tanks of gas or having the tip touch the ground.
I have watched the Project Farm video. He did not test a Stihl carbide chain. I wish he would, as it was not a fair representation of a quality carbide chain.
There is one drawback to using carbide. Recently a friend wanted me to compare his MS261 to mine. He was running a .325 .063 20" RS chain. I needed to be careful I did not hit the dirt. I did not notice any real difference between the saws. I did hand it back after about 10 cuts. I did not want the stress of making sure I did not hit the dirt. Before using carbide chains, not hitting the dirt was just a normal part of cutting wood. I am spoiled now.
I have read posts stating the carbide chain cuts slowly. That is not what I experience. I do not take a stop watch with me when I cut firewood, but if it is slower, I do not notice it. Others cutting firewood with me are always asking, "how does your saw cut so fast". I do not know the condition of their saws. I am guessing they don't keep their chains as sharp as they should. I no longer need to worry about touching up my chain every few tanks of gas or having the tip touch the ground.
I have watched the Project Farm video. He did not test a Stihl carbide chain. I wish he would, as it was not a fair representation of a quality carbide chain.
Chuck, you have a good hands on experience post with info that I was looking for.
Thanks for the Input.
As far as Carbide Chains go I'm like a blind dog in a meat house I don't know which way to go first.
Final Carbide Chain question. If you were going to buy just one chain for testing purposes would you buy a Stihl 33RD3 chain since it is made in a chain manufacturing facility and a number of others are hand made in small shops where they braze or silver the carbide chunks on the chain and the quality seems to be lacking.
guysmiley
ArboristSite Member
I had to do some extensive stump removal below grade and found it cheaper to run a carbide chain on my 028 wb .325 than rent a stump grinder. That saw was having idling issues at the time so I also dedicated a cs-400 to the task running .375 lp semi chisel. The carbide outperformed my expectations by a mile. Probably sharpened it about 4 times. I definitely saved money and the saw still wears that chain for when I need a sharp saw. I prefer steel for clean work of course. The abuse that carbide chain had seen was stupid, I did try to keep bar and chain extra lubed and cleaned it out often but we are talking a few hours of cutting dirt and it is still going. The echo chain was toast.
Afterwards I have fixed all issues with the 028 and gave the cs400 a nice shiny brand new bar and chain combo
Afterwards I have fixed all issues with the 028 and gave the cs400 a nice shiny brand new bar and chain combo
Eh?
ladnar
ArboristSite Member
Who makes a .325 .050 carbide chain?
https://www.baileysonline.com/stihl-23rd3-325-x-050-carbide-saw-chain.htmlYou may find it a bit cheaper on ebay
Jackpot $50.95 on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/185736527468?hash=item2b3ec27e6c:g:lDwAAOSwOFdjwaBS&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA4OzLf3fIiZH+8Ya/GvRA1E6qUPiwjPlDJKqV/w2pB3OxtwEbwUd9vTz0h/FQZ7dEi7mNKBSnSfJwahT+XvU9qgi7l9De4HII/Fmf07/oId0IV32hlrwqp/SbVfEW+vUOhijqthASNu8ha85l2fl1CoZ/Fa/uS+SuBv5g9Zk+7uY6rYZH6SzODDf9BqaTx1f9UmuSdglIBFA92LkBOUZIp7zrzC8CDn0uyazVKPSpx/UTIT90tT0Ns/IHJRbGOrHelTgVTz4KJyMVMmQYzRHsG6kaj2N1eyGrfWDjT5IKaHdz|tkp:Bk9SR4bFr4rbYQ
You will need 78 drive links if you are running a 20" bar.
