But have you raced a Tesla yet?[/QUOTE]
No, we here are close to Thomas Edison. His original shop is right next to where I go ice fishing.
Are M-Tronic & AutoTune holding up?
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No, we here are close to Thomas Edison. His original shop is right next to where I go ice fishing.
dstrick
ArboristSite Member
Mine is holding up great Steve. I’m at 20 cord this season. Only calibrated it once on a 20 F weather swing because I wanted to try it. It went from 65F up to 85F. Northwest mild.I read threads like this because i have 2 M-tronic saws (241/462) to see if /what issuses are going on and i respect you guys opinions that do the tests and analyze stuff. I started out with a brand new 023 back in the 90's and ran 50:1 because that's what the Stihl manual said and i didn't have youse guys to tell me any different. I was sawing 20 or more cords a year every year and had no issues with the saw. I then bought a new 290, yep 50:1. then bought a 250 more 50:1. All the saws were run stock no mods of any kind. I'd probably stihl be running just those 3 saws but you all know about CAD. I started running 45:1 back around 2013. That's the year i joined a chainsaw forum.
Good to hear. My 241 has gallons and gallons through it and no issues . 462 has been run in the 20's and 90'swith no noticeable changes. The operator didn't like the 90's.
Good to hear. My 241 has gallons and gallons through it and no issues . 462 has been run in the 20's and 90'swith no noticeable changes. The operator didn't like the 90's.
I don't think my 562xp has seen temperatures under 50 F, and I know for a fact the guy holding the saw is the limit now that it's been regularly 100+!!
One tank, and I've got more than enough wood to toss on the burn piles by hand. With a few water breaks sprinkled in for health and stayin' alive. Then it's on to the inside A/C home improvement projects.
That's a few hrs and then some!
So then what did you have to replace on the 441/661 in that time?
As in maybe a few clutches? or say a few bars? or nothing apart from a few chains?...
What does it take to keep a saw running for 3,000 hours??
Genuine questions??
Are you a full-time cutter? Or a full-time firewood cutter? or a full-time machine operator?
What's the go catbuster??...
Brent Nowell
Addicted to ArboristSite
Excellent question
I have eight older 441's, both M-tronic and not....a video series to pick over the bones and build runners is currently in process.....maybe a month or two out. SO will figure out what dies...I can tell you the top and bottom ends are fine in all of them..wow. good solid stuff there.
Brent Nowell
Addicted to ArboristSite
Would love to see a 550 full build video. The last one you did splitting the cases the video got deleted, you also didn’t have one showing the top end disassembly.
I like hearing you discuss the pros and cons of particular designs and the improvements we can make upon them.
stihl86
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not as familiar with the "M-tronic" system....
" Magnetic (fuel) Valve
The Magnetic valve opens and closes to allow fuel through the carburetor"
Its the same principal. That's why Stihl calls it a "Solenoid". Which it is. A electromagnetic device.
What amazes me is just how fast the work. I'm not at all familiar with your saw brand, they have -0- representation around here, but I'm sure Stihl's is better. LOL
The component could very well be from the same manufacturer ??????????
They are. Stihl bought into the technology. I've also used the Stihl software. Flashed some 461's. Actually that's a saw on my "bucket" list. Just so much to do and so little time...seems to me as if Stihl and Husqvarna introduced saws at different points along that technology's evolution path...had the first gen 576's, then the 441's, were a bit better. Husqvarna's 550/562 series. Then now Stihl's 462's and Husqvarna's 572's 550 mk2's......lots of similarities. Husqvarna's CST is a little further along in my opinon...but I haven't used the Stihl's since the end of 2018 so there may be upgrades to the interface. And' I'm ONLY talking about the Autotune/ Service interface, NOT the mechanical of those saw which is a completely different subject. With the 462 looks like that is a spec sheet evolution, focused on numbers where as the 572 is wrought from the pain of field R&D derived from the 562/550 experience. One company put in meat the other went for the weigh reduction. Time will tell which passes the test of time....at this point in my life I'm pretty open to either, just enjoying watching the show
dstrick
ArboristSite Member
Folks when you think about it, variable jet carburetors have been around for decades. Ford had variable Venturi needle jets in mechanical operation on 70’s 302’s. GM had the variable solenoid jet on their 80’s junk V6s. So varying a pulse width modulated signal, or an analog current signal to a solenoid on a carb jet is not a new technology. Saws finally caught up with decades old technology. And I’m glad and I like it.
In 3000 hours... Which is ~375 full days cutting, or probably four years the way I’m working a saw now. Just over a year and a half for a full time faller running one saw.
Most of my 441s are/were crew saws. They usually eat many loops in 3000 hours, several drive sprockets, clutch bearings, clutch springs, air filters, you know, chainsaw consumables.
They get replaced on an as-needed basis. A saw will usually eat sprocket tips but good guide bars last a long time and at least through several noses. My clutch carriers and shoes usually last the service life of a saw, and keeping a sharp chain and letting the saw self feed has a lot to do with that.
When the saw is a small, yet critical piece in a bigger puzzle that’s being used to make money it really doesn’t matter.
661s are much the same.
A $1000 chainsaw is a pretty small piece in comparison to the hoe it’s cutting for 400 times its cost. We have to spend some cash to make any, keep my people employed and survive. They’re tools. We use them as tools. Hard, but with care.
Once again, they’re stockers running the mix Stihl recommends (50-ish:1 HP Ultra/91-93 octane). I just turn saws over every 4-5 years on crew saws. It’s pretty rare for me to have a failure or an issue. Mostly because the stuff doesn't sit where ethanol in the fuel becomes a problem.
I don’t know if you were trying to call me out, but I sure hope I answered your questions.
If you ran a saw non stop for two hours a day (say 4-12tanks) including Xmas day that would be 730-hours. If you did this for 4 years non stop everyday 2hrs, that would come to 2920-hrs. That's pretty good for a few sprockets, bars, springs & minor 'consumables'. And to do that in a year, to actually run a saw for 8hrs of actual run time would take I reckon a minimum of 10 hours. So to get to 3000hrs in a year you have to do more than that you need to do 80hrs more to make 3000. That's impressive even if it was only half true fa sure!
One of the really cool things about CST and the Husqvarna Autotune system is you get information LIKE carb temps, current mixture settings, run time time broken down to things like at idle and at full or close to full throttle. REALLY punctuates discussion about what a saw's life was like.
livemusic
ArboristSite Operative
If what you say is true, can you protect your saw by have a richer mix, like 40:1 or whatever or does that screw up the computer brain?
I have been running a 45:1 or there abouts in both my Mtronic saws. They seem to run fine and the plugs look like they should. Same mix I run in my standard carbed saws but they needed a little tweaking.
stihl86
Addicted to ArboristSite
Seems a lot of people feel the saws are running lean. Now, I would think they mean fuel lean, not oil lean.
How does adding more oil compensate for insufficient fuel?
This has been beaten to death. It doesn't.
How does adding more oil compensate for insufficient fuel?
This has been beaten to death. It doesn't.
How much, if at all, do you think the long-term goal of Stihl's fuel injection development program is to refine and simplify it to the point where they can use it instead of M-Tronic and thus untie themselves from the Husqvarna licensing arrangement?
I think we all focus too much on the technology and labels, I suspect both companies are at some point going to an evolved and better system. What this reminds me of was Buroughs / Sperry-Univac turned UNYSIS vs. IBM. The joke the IBMer's laughed about was Sperry would develop new concepts, IBM would market them after the technology concept was mature and make the killing in the market place. Stihl markets better than Husqvarna. Husqvarna over the years broke new ground....things like the "Jonsered Turbo" concept drawing air from the pull start area, three point springs anti vib, and the Autotune technology... so now Stilh is using the chop saw derived Fuel injection.....is this a shift? Doubt it. Who knows where the Husqvarna folks go..depends on the success of the business. But I do know if the money for R&D is there, we will be surprised at what they ( Husqvarna) answer with..
Me? Couldn't care less about that stuff, all I care about is how they work...and the 572's work really well. Learned a long time ago we all fall into the marketing types trap by focusing on specific technology, the narrative and labels....like Aluminum frames on motorcross bikes that came out in the 1990's...the 1997 Honda CR250. Now many years later...KTM has steel. So much for the revolution.
Speaking of bikes, I remember talking with a Husqvarna engineer who'd transferred from bikes to chainsaws (this was before the sale to Cagiva) about rear suspension design, my idle thought being that a properly designed steel swing-arm would be stiffer, stronger, lighter & indeed prettier, than a welded aluminium one. He agreed, but then added that clear-coated square-section aluminium with prominently displayed MIG welds was what customers expected to see on their cafe racers.I think we all focus too much on the technology and labels, I suspect both companies are at some point going to an evolved and better system. What this reminds me of was Buroughs / Sperry-Univac turned UNYSIS vs. IBM. The joke the IBMer's laughed about was Sperry would develop new concepts, IBM would market them after the technology concept was mature and make the killing in the market place. Stihl markets better than Husqvarna. Husqvarna over the years broke new ground....things like the "Jonsered Turbo" concept drawing air from the pull start area, three point springs anti vib, and the Autotune technology... so now Stilh is using the chop saw derived Fuel injection.....is this a shift? Doubt it. Who knows where the Husqvarna folks go..depends on the success of the business. But I do know if the money for R&D is there, we will be surprised at what they ( Husqvarna) answer with..
One company's "revolutionary concept" is another's "fashion statement".
We like to see giant leaps but most successful innovation is the result of constant thought and frequent tiny changes, as illustrated in some of your more analytical videos.
Pressure to take a new concept to market too early so as not to appear to be just the same as your competitor, can lead to a loss of face when you end up adopting their technique after all or going back to what you did before.
