Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

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husky394,

What you related in your post about “secrets” in the area of chains is absolutely true. It’s been that way as long as I can remember. Nobody helped me except the retired champion who became a Homelite dealer in my hometown. His help was mainly in speed cutting techniques and engine modification. It was after many years of competing that I became proficient in filing fast chains, then other contestants wanted to get “chummy” with me. I only divulged to them what I wanted then to know but not the information that I obtained by my own testing, ideas, and long hours and expense.

Art Martin
 
Mr. Martin ... that is why I asked

to buy the knowledge and expertise from you in the form of a book or video.

I really appreciate what you have written here and would appreciate more.

I am willing to pay for the book or Pamphlet, brochure etc.
 
Once again Art, thanks for the info and pics....I ran another test tonight on your chain to see if it could hold up to this fight. Here is a Greffardized 046 with Art Martin chain vs 4 Lobsters. Results to come.
 
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Another Trophy for ALL of us Arboristsite members; Sorry you missed this, but it tasted great.....Proper filing will feed you, Bad filing will get you burnt. Thanks and you know who you are.

ROTAX
 
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Rubber Bands

You are lucky those rubber bands are holding those claws together or else they could clamp on the throttle?

So how many Lobsters does it take to beat an Art chain?
 
Art,
I have a question about boiling lobster... :D

Actually, I'm wondering about the grinding you do on the top of the drive links and tie straps. You mentioned you took the top off the drive links and put a grove in the top to doggie bone them. Then you mentioned you put a 45* angle on the top of the tie strap.

In studying the chain, it seems the drive link needs to be twice as strong as the tie straps, simply because there are two tie straps and one drive link.

Is the reason for the 45* angle simply because it can be ground without making the drive link weaker, or does this angle help move chips down and to the sides of the chain?
 
Mike Maas,

Let’s take a 3/8” pitch chain for example. The amount of metal above the rivet hole is about .093”. When you doggy bone a chain, you grind the metal from the area between the rivet holes leaving the radius measurement of at least .093” from the rivet hole. The amount of metal removed from that area doesn’t weaken the chain. As I mentioned in my previous post (Pg. 13, 12-13-02), removing the metal above the rivet hole to bring the top of the drive links even with the top of the tie straps is risky. That only leaves .040” of metal above the rivet hole. The 45° angle that is made on the top edge of the tie straps is part of the process of lightening the chain. That area is a safe area to remove metal from without any risk of weakening the chain. This “streamlines” the chain by removing the sharp areas, which in turn helps to rid the chips since the surface area is reduced. This enables the chips to drop out easier when they come out of the cut. A flat area tends to carry more chips back into the cut as the chain goes around the sprocket.

Art Martin
 
That makes sense.
I noticed some chain has the drive ink already doggie boned on top. I was measuring some .325 drivelinks and it only has .060" of metal above the rivet but has about .090 in front of the rivet. Do you think there is a strength advantage to having all that metal in the front and rear parts of the drive link?

Also, what do you think about drilling a hole in the lower portion of the drive link. I know some of the chain sold now has holes that are supposed to drag more oil around the bar, and I would think it would lighten the chain up a bit too.
 
mike maas,

No on the first question.
Drilling a hole or cutting a thin slot on each drive link could have some advantage in bringing more oil to the groove of the bar. I seen some race chain makers do this. I don't do it because the holes get plugged up with sawdust and creates a drag while the chain going through the cut thus canceling out any advantage gained by the extra oil or weight reduction.

Art Martin
 
Hi Art, I just wanted to thank you again for sharing your unique insight and hard won knowledge so freely and in such depth here, of course I also recognize that things would have been different in your competition days, LOL. I too would jump on the band wagon and gladly purchase bits of your knowledge put to paper, but I don`t want to understate your generosity or my appreciation either. The fact that this thread currently has over 250 replies and 9700 views is a strong testament to the value that people put in your words. Russ
 
jokers,

Thanks for the kind words. As you can tell, I am not sworn to secrecy to anyone. I guess those that are, don't want any "outsiders" to infiltrate their lucrative domination of the logging sports.
I just want to promote the sport that I have been affiliated with for around 50 years. I feel that this is a good way to get more people started and to help them along with knowledge that is so hard to obtain from others.

Art Martin
 
Before we talk about the sharpening phase, you need a vise that holds the tooth that is being filed completely stationary. Also the top of the vise must be narrow enough to allow the filer to have full movement of the stroke, both up and down as well as sideways. If you try to file a chain on a large bench vise, the vise itself will obstruct the downward movement and not let you get the proper angles. The vise itself must be high enough so the file doesn't bump anything. I made my vise out of two pieces of planer blades, bolted together, with a .063" drive link separating the planer blades at each end with the bolts going through the rivet holes. I mounted the two blades on two pieces of angle iron bolted together that allows me to put the filing vise into my large bench vise. Then I took a short piece of round 1” steel stock and drilled a hole so the axis of revolution was displaced from the center, allowing me to impart pressure on the drive link below the tooth being sharpened. I threaded a handle on that eccentric shaft with a knob on it for easy movement.

Art Martin
 
I have been talking about the “optimum cutting angle” for a long time on many different threads. In order to keep the chain cutting at constant efficiency throughout the life of the chain, the depth gauges should be lowered accordingly. To help understand this principle, the attachment should help.

Art Martin
 
attack angle

Art,

Thank you for providing that image.  There's something a little curious about it.  Specifically, there are a couple of points which make it seem a bit simplistic to me.

First is that when the tooth is rocked back relative to it's direction of travel, the relative depth of cut decreases, until it's eventually nothing.  At .025" depth with the "raker" leading the point by .25", the angle is 5.7°.  That is, 5.7° from 0 relative depth. 

Maintaining that angle (distance-to-depth of 10:1), .038" depth would result in .38" distance to the cutting point, which barely reaches the front of the rear rivet on my 3/8 RS chain.  There is fully another 1/8" (1/2" total) of useful distance from the "raker".  At .5" distance, the depth gauge would need to be .050" by the formula implied in that attached image.

Another way of looking at it is that at .5" setback and .038" depth, the angle has lessened from 5.7° to 4.3°.  So from that standpoint there seems to be some discrepancy, or at least indication of simplicity in the information (since the angle would not be maintained).

When I take a couple of quick measurements on my 3/8 RS chain, I see that the cutting edge of the top plate starts as approx. 5mm and lessens to approx. 4mm at the rear witness mark.  That's a 1.25:1 ratio, and applying that factor to the initial depth setting of .025" would result in a setting of .031" to maintain the same cross-sectional area of "chip" being removed (or volume per length of chip).

Now that last bit was not based upon precise measurements, and I would certainly not be surprised to see variation in one direction or the other.  Let's assume it's accurate for the moment. 

If for some reason the tooth actually does cut with the leading rivet at a greater distance from the bar than the trailing rivet (and I concede that the tendency to attempt to do that would increase as the cutting corner approaches a position above the rear rivet, and even more so as it falls behind the rivet) then that would certainly lessen the <i>effective</i> depth setting.&nbsp; If indeed that occurs, then when the depth gauge is lowered beyond that necessary to compensate for the shorter top plate cutting edge, as further compensation for the altered orientation of the tooth, the vertical angle of the sideplate cutting edge would need to be brought forward to ensure that the point leads by the proper amount on that plane as well.&nbsp; Is any mention of that made in the literature?&nbsp; Have you experimented with <i>that</i>?

This is all armchair engineering on my part.&nbsp; I say that to let you know that I know that.&nbsp; I feel that proportionately lowering the depth gauges is the good and proper thing to do in order to maintain the amount of material the cutter will remove in use over it's lifespan.&nbsp; It's obvious that it actually works, whatever the possible explanation.&nbsp; It's also obvious that the increased distance from the depth gauge to the cutting point of a used chain imparts greater kickback tendencies to it, and that by progressively lowering the depth gauges to maintain the volume of chip produced increases those tendencies even further.

Perhaps my point could be summarized by saying I feel that diagram is a bit more marketing gimmickry for the File-O-Plate than it is scientific. (not to say the File-O-Plate is a gimmick)

By the way, don't you think that the drag of a dozen following cutters, all trying to do that same thing, would tend to pull the lead rivet down to a position directly inline with it's heel rivet and that of the previous cutter?&nbsp; There must be tremendous force on the heel of the cutter link!
 
GLENS;

Your tone seems to indicate a feeling of authority on the subject yet you also speak of "armchair engineering". Art Martins knowledge of the subject is world class and supported by winning results in competitions. Your dissertation needs a lot of clarificatio before it would get any serious consideration here.

Frank
 
glens,

Thanks for your response concerning the “optimum cutting angle” that I posted. Although the drawing was somewhat off the subject of racing chains, there remained some confusion about that subject in my previous posts on other threads. I felt that it was appropriate for people to see how the depth gauge controls the size of the chips as is clearly illustrated in this drawing. I certainly do not intend to duplicate, challenge or spend time obtaining the measurements that you submitted in your post. I just don’t understand what you were getting at. I do however think you missed the point since the optimum cutting angle and chip size is clearly illustrated at the front portion of each drawing as the tooth raises up from the bar. The side plate and top plate angles remain the same regardless of the length of the tooth. The depth of the depth gauge, when you are using other chains such, as the .404” and ½” pitch chains, are different because of the length of the teeth. For example, on a ½” chain the depth gauges could be set at .060” or more, when the tooth is filed back over the rear rivet. On a new ½” chain the depth of the depth gauge is .030”.

I am more inclined to accept the findings of Ray R. Carlton, who was the founder of Carlton Chains. At the time he came out with the File-O-Plate (1982), he had already devoted 34 years to the design and manufacture of chainsaw chain. The design of the File-O-Plate was the result of countless hours of research by his engineers who came out with that tool. Until that tool was devised, there were adjustable depth gauges on the market, but few people knew at what depth to set them correctly. The result of not having the knowledge and understanding of the progressive method was erratic cutting and undue wear on the chains.

I use an adjustable gauge and not the File-O-Plate because I know where to set my depth gauges from experience, and also because I file a variety of different pitched chains. However, I would like to mention that I have no interest in the File-O-Plate industry or am I affiliated in any way with the Carlton Chain Company. I do, however, think that the File-O-Plate tool is an asset to those less experienced saw operators to at least have their depth gauges set at the right level.

Art Martin
 
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