Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

[Art Martin]

Doug,

Speaking about Walt, his super chain(the one John Lambert used in the Great Saw Race) mysteriously appeared in my mail box about a month or so ago. I have been studying it and finally put it in isolation away from all the racing chains hanging on the wall (about 25 of them) in case it had a virus since it looked morbid.
Too bad Ann Landers isn't still around so I could ask for advice.

Art Martin

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Art,
I understand that the rear part of the tooth cuts a narrower kerf and creates less chips, and you do most of the metal removal on the outside of the side plate to narrow the kerf even more, but what about the top plate? Is all the work done under the plate to increase the chip channel?
My thinking is that any work done to the top of the top plate would reduce the height of the chip channel.

 

[Art Martin]

Mike Maas,

To increase the chip channel size, the removal of the metal is from the inside only. The reduction of the kerf is just on the outside of the side plate. The top of the top plate isn't touched. This precedure doesn't make more chips or less chips, just eases the resistance to the volumn of chips that are flowing through the channel, thus allowing you to take the full advantage of the h.p. created by the engine, so it's not lost to friction loss. Like water flowing through a hose, the bigger the hose, the less the friction loss.

Art Martin

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Is the chrome removed from the top plate?

I also wonder about useing the front of the tooth as opposed to the rear. If the front of the tooth is used there will be a wider and taller chip channel, although there will also be more chips produced.
Just thinking out loud here, wider kerf makes more chips, which cancels the benifit of wider chip channel. A taller tooth would increase the size of the chip channel, without making more chips. Does that make sense?

 

[Art Martin]

Mike Maas,

As I mentioned in my last post, “the top of the top plate isn’t touched” that includes chrome or any other metal.
I don’t understand what you mean by “more chips produced”. The word “more” refers to quantity. How could more chips be produced by a cutter that removes a “chip” that has a cutting edge at the forward position of the tooth? Why would a tooth that has the cutting edge 3/16 of an inch farther back, not produce the same amount of chips? From where would these extra chips appear? Please explain this phenomenon.

Art Martin

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Art,
The rear of the tooth cuts a narrower kerf due to the set angle built into the cutter, hence a lower volume of wood to cut the same distance. I was refering to distance cut, not time.

 

[Art Martin]

Mike Maas,

Apparently you are referring to the width of the chip. The width of the chip would be wider, so more torque from the engine would be required, this in turn would cut down on the rpms slightly, resulting in lower chain speed. With the same effort expended by the engine, the narrower kerf chain would be able to remove the same volume of wood with the same effort, but would be farther down the cut, say in exactly five seconds.

Art Martin

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Originally posted by Art Martin
Many people have often asked, “why is the round filed chipper tooth chain not as fast as a square filed chisel tooth chain?”

Art Martin

Art, are comparing semi-chisel to full-chisel here?

 

[dbabcock]

I think Art may be refering to the fact that a chipper tooth can only be round filed up in the corner where the side and top plates meet, due to the radiused tooth shape in this area. Since a chisel tooth, with its 90 degree rectangular corner can be filed with a rectangular file, this effectively separates the two edges, enabling an optimized angle on each, to address each's individual task . I think the key here is to have the cutting edges of each be separate and orthoganol right into the inside corner where they meet. Of course, I'm certainly not the expert here.

 

[Art Martin]

Doug,

The chisel tooth at the top intersection, where the side plate and the top plate come together, is not a true 90-degree angle (orthogonal) because of the set required (outward lean). The drawing posted by Mike Mass, dated 12-18-02 on page 14, clearly depicts this. Also, the correct top corner angles cannot be obtained with a rectangular file that is merely a flat file. It is with the special chisel bit files the correct positioning or posture can be obtained. Although it is not limited just to chisel bit files, since I don’t use them for racing chains.

Art Martin

 

[dbabcock]

Art,
Well, it looks like I'll just have to come out and visit you and Marita as well as Ken and the Rupleys since obviously I can't seem to get this straight over the net. It's a good excuse for a trip anyway.

 

[Art Martin]

Doug,

We would be honored to have you come for a visit. The coffee will be on, the beer will be chilled, the food will be great and the B.S. will flow as if through an enlarged chip channel. I’m sure the Rupley brothers would also attend and we could have Ken come over even if we have to drive to his house to get him. I could put on a chain-filing seminar so you could keep up with Gypo and Dennis.

Art Martin

 

[Art Martin]

rich hoffman,

The important cutting corner of a semi-chisel chain is still somewhat lower than that of a full chisel. Therefore, there is still the same type of ratio involved, that I mentioned, as with the chipper tooth, although not as much. With a semi-chisel you could overcome the problem slightly if you used a "Googy" file instead of a round file. That way you could could get a steeper inside side plate angle as well as a steeper inside top plate angle.
I've never tried this but it seems plausible.

Art Martin

 

[John Ellison]

Art
Very interesting thread. I wish I had a fraction of your knowledge on chain filing. Please keep it coming,my hats off to you.
Merry Christmas Everybody!

John

 

[Art Martin]

Well, I better get busy now that Christmas is over, so that all those who are interested can begin to get their chains ready for the next contest season. There is no particular order to do the steps that I have described. The main thing is to try to do them uniformly with as much precision as possible. The length of teeth that are cut back should all be the same length and the depth gauges should be exactly set the same, etc. Shoddy work won’t bring home the rewards. Having been a crosscut filer for years, has taught me how important even a few thousandths off is unacceptable. Even though chain filing is not that critical, try not to form bad habits or they can come back to haunt you.
The tie straps top edges are shaped to a sloping 45-degree angle. This procedure can be done with a file, except for the tie strap on the inside side of the tooth. The Dremel tool works well there if you choose to do the other tie straps with a file. I use the Dremel tool on all tie strap slopes. This step helps to lighten the chain and helps in the chip removal. When all the tie straps have been sloped, I usually put a round tooth sharpening stone in the Dremel tool and go over the doggy bone areas to remove the rough areas and sort of soften the surfaces of the tie straps. All the different steps we have covered may not seem all that important, but they are accumulative and they add up and when the chain is finished, it can take seconds off the cutting times.
The next step is to set up the de-chrome machine and reduce the side lead. This will help but isn’t totally necessary since most people don’t do it. When I first started de-chroming chains in the 60’s, I would put the saw in a large vise with chain on backwards. Then I would start the saw and run the saw at a fast idle and hold a stone against the teeth until the chrome was removed. After doing both sides this way, I filed the back end of each individual tooth a few strokes with a flat file so that the front of the tooth had some lead. This was kind of crude and somewhat dangerous, but my chains did cut faster. The de-chroming machine that I made is much easier and more accurate.

Art Martin
v

 

[Art Martin]

Here is a picture of the machine I made for de-chroming.

Art Martin

 

[husky 2100]

art about how many thous. are you taking off the outside of the cutter thanks mike

 

[husky394]

Thank you, Art, for posting this information.

It has been my experience that racing chain filing remains the last "secret" area of lumberjack sports, at least in the east. If you watch the Stihl series or on TV or attend a contest, you may notice some of the contestants covering their chains with a rag until just before they are ready to start the saw. That thin cotton rag doesn't protect the chain from anything except prying eyes. Folks who will openly discuss axe grinds and crosscut sawing technique will "clam up" upon the mention of hotsaw chain. I know one fellow who has been sworn to secrecy concerning chain work.

This is the first time that I have ever seen instructions of this level of detail in print anywhere.

Thank you again.

 

[glens]

husky 2100 - "how much removed":

I'm offering this response in an effort to help Mr. Martin not have to repeat his words.  I think the answer to the "how much side material is removed" question has already been provided.  See if you don't think so too by looking at the following specific links (and context).

The start of the process, where he states he bobs the cutter back to the rear rivet is at http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4932&perpage=20&pagenumber=10#post63002 (actually the entire process description starts in the reply just prior to that, but this is where he started to discuss the <i>cutter mods</i> particularly).

All three of the following replies are on the same resultant page, but it's probably easier to provide the discrete links anyway than to describe what to search for.&nbsp; He doesn't say directly how much side material he removes, but the information is "gleanable".

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4932&perpage=20&pagenumber=11#post63062

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4932&perpage=20&pagenumber=11#post63474

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4932&perpage=20&pagenumber=11#post63590

 

[Art Martin]

Mike,

It’s a hard question to answer and I’ll tell you why. First of all you have to take into consideration what pitch of chain it is, whether it is ½”, .404” or 3/8”etc. Then it depends at which place you measure it. If you take a measurement on a new tooth up front, the top plate is much wider there than when it is back over the rear rivet. After I grind the tooth back to the front of the rear rivet, I adjust the de-chroming machine to the slight “lead” that I mentioned in a previous post. Then I feed the tooth into the grinder slowly until there is only the slightest trace of chrome showing at the rear heel of the tooth. This is like a “gauge” that I use to get the same amount off each tooth. It would be almost impossible to measure this area with a micrometer because of the angle of the side plate.
Now, if you were to disassemble the complete chain and surface grind the inside wall of each tooth, where the rivet holes are, .020” is the amount you would want to take off. This would reduce the kerf .040” since both sides are done.

Art Martin