Backup generator opinions.

[Bill G]

Hence my warnings about being provably empty and not having placard and signage. For example, I tow around a 500 gallon tank all the time. But it isn't placarded for gasoline. The law does not mandate a placard certifying "empty" on it for all tanks, but they do require placard on tanks carrying certain products..

My tank never (officially, that is) contained any fuel, so I need no hazmat endorsement on my CDL. I have a small fuel tank that carries about 200 gallons of gas, oil, whatever. I don't have the hazmat endorsement, and driving down the road with that tank full of fuel crosses the line of 119 gallons of gasoline or diesel.

Not much point is carrying around an empty tank. I prefer to take an empty tank and fill it but heck to each their own................

 

[pdqdl]

Nope. depending on how busy they are they will have you drive over to Pedro running the the grapple and he will drop them in the grinder. If he is (Pedro) is busy Hector will grab them and pile them for later

Around here, you gotta play by their rules. I do all the maintenance for a large metal scrapper, and they don't care one little bit about breaching the rules for me, either. They recently rejected a refrigerator that had been drained of all the oil and coolant.

Yep. The new rule is that the refrigeration unit must be intact, otherwise they reject it.

 

[Bill G]

Around here, you gotta play by their rules. I do all the maintenance for a large metal scrapper, and they don't care one little bit about breaching the rules for me, either. They recently rejected a refrigerator that had been drained of all the oil and coolant.

Yep. The new rule is that the refrigeration unit must be intact, otherwise they reject it.

Sir,

Can you kindly tell me what rule I am breaking? I am all about education and learning.

Bill

 

[grizz55chev]

Just a minor correction, grizz. The engine runs at 1800 or 3600 rpm to produce 60hertz. 1500 and 3000 for 50 hertz for the UK.

I stand corrected

 

[Lionsfan]

That panel looks almost exactly like the one on my house with one big exception. My box doesnt have the lock out feature that makes sure that you are either getting power from the line or power from the gen, but not both at the same time. Which is the main reason I am getting the Generlink.

That is the interlock switch, you buy it separate and it bolts into the panel.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Not much to comment on this thread about standby power generation except to say, I want it as 'turn key' as possible and I'm adverse to making temporary connections to power the farm and shop so we have a Generac 27KW diesel powered unit (1800 rpm, 4 pole head, with a 300 amp vacuum transfer switch). That powers not only everything in the house but the essential stuff in the shop as well. Maintenance is not a big deal, oil change and filters once yearly. It's hard plumbed into the diesel bulk tank (500 gallon), I keep my tractor diesel in.

It has a John Deere turbo charged 4 cylinder diesel, totally enclosed and sits next to the shop.

Bought it over 20 years ago and have zero issues with it (other than routine maintenance and a couple starting batteries).

When the utility fails (and it does here quite a bit lately), the unit starts and runs for 45 seconds, no load to stabilize itself and then assumes the entire load imposed.

Very quiet too.

I don't like fiddling with anything electrical, especially high amperage 220 volt 3 phase stuff.

I did just order and receive a new enclosure for it as the original one is steel and it's getting rusty so I purchased a new aluminum enclosure from Generac and before the snow flies, I need to pull the guts out of the steel enclosure and install everything in the powder coat aluminum one (After I disconnect it from the breakout box on the side of the shop of course).

I don't remember quite what I paid for it, long time ago but, I believe it was around 10 grand, installed by a certified Generac tech and approved by the local electrical inspector.

Money well spent far as I'm concerned.

I have a portable Inverter generator, a Champion, for the RV as well.

The issue with using a portable generator during a power outage is, unless you physically breakout the mains in your home before hooking up a portable genny, the threat of back feeding the utility (on the pole) is great and back feeding can be lethal to unaware utility workers. Why I prefer an automatic vacuum breakout switch. That totally isolates the utility from the farm power and won't reenergize the utility until it 'senses' stable utility power.

Not for everyone but our utility load is pretty high and our electric bill reflects that. I can really crank up the utility bill when I'm busy in the shop.

 

[serdie]

Not much to comment on this thread about standby power generation except to say, I want it as 'turn key' as possible and I'm adverse to making temporary connections to power the farm and shop so we have a Generac 27KW diesel powered unit (1800 rpm, 4 pole head, with a 300 amp vacuum transfer switch). That powers not only everything in the house but the essential stuff in the shop as well. Maintenance is not a big deal, oil change and filters once yearly. It's hard plumbed into the diesel bulk tank (500 gallon), I keep my tractor diesel in.

It has a John Deere turbo charged 4 cylinder diesel, totally enclosed and sits next to the shop.

Bought it over 20 years ago and have zero issues with it (other than routine maintenance and a couple starting batteries).

When the utility fails (and it does here quite a bit lately), the unit starts and runs for 45 seconds, no load to stabilize itself and then assumes the entire load imposed.

Very quiet too.

I don't like fiddling with anything electrical, especially high amperage 220 volt 3 phase stuff.

I did just order and receive a new enclosure for it as the original one is steel and it's getting rusty so I purchased a new aluminum enclosure from Generac and before the snow flies, I need to pull the guts out of the steel enclosure and install everything in the powder coat aluminum one (After I disconnect it from the breakout box on the side of the shop of course).

I don't remember quite what I paid for it, long time ago but, I believe it was around 10 grand, installed by a certified Generac tech and approved by the local electrical inspector.

Money well spent far as I'm concerned.

I have a portable Inverter generator, a Champion, for the RV as well.

The issue with using a portable generator during a power outage is, unless you physically breakout the mains in your home before hooking up a portable genny, the threat of back feeding the utility (on the pole) is great and back feeding can be lethal to unaware utility workers. Why I prefer an automatic vacuum breakout switch. That totally isolates the utility from the farm power and won't reenergize the utility until it 'senses' stable utility power.

Not for everyone but our utility load is pretty high and our electric bill reflects that. I can really crank up the utility bill when I'm busy in the shop.

All the above being said, it costs a lot of money for us to generate our own electric barring solar and wind. My Generac is natural gas fired and when running 24-7 will cost me $400 a week to use. I’ve been thru this once or twice but was sure glad to have it! Our power here in W.Va is 7 cents a kilowatt hour almost lowest in the nation because it’s coal fired. Do your maintenance on your generator and it will last for years and years.

 

[muddstopper]

Let's clarify something here! Duramax is a GM branded product line of trucks. I suspect you are talking about Duromax.

You are correct. Funny thing is I have been looking at these generators for months and hadnt noticed it before you pointed it out.

 

[stihlaficionado]

New to this, but will need one capable of providing power to 3,000 sq ft, plus an outbuilding
400 amp box

Most if not all of the other homes built in the area have propane generators

Most reliable brands?

 

[muddstopper]

That is the interlock switch, you buy it separate and it bolts into the panel.

Correct, but the problem is that the rv outlet I have is also used for other things, meaning If I use the interlock like was in the breaker panel pics, I would be cutting the mains off. This is fine if you are hooking a genset, but not so much if I am wanting to hook up a rv.

 

[Sidecarflip]

All the above being said, it costs a lot of money for us to generate our own electric barring solar and wind. My Generac is natural gas fired and when running 24-7 will cost me $400 a week to use. I’ve been thru this once or twice but was sure glad to have it! Our power here in W.Va is 7 cents a kilowatt hour almost lowest in the nation because it’s coal fired. Do your maintenance on your generator and it will last for years and years.

In reality, fuel usage is entirely dependent on load imposed. Light load equals less fuel used, heavy demand equals more fuel used.

I don't do solar or wind here other than the RV and solar panels to keep the house batteries charged when using it.

 

[muddstopper]

New to this, but will need one capable of providing power to 3,000 sq ft, plus an outbuilding


Most if not all of the other homes built in the area have propane generators

I think a lot of people are thinking generators are meant to power everything in their homes just like the grid. Well they can if you want to spend the money to be able to do so. I look at my generator as a temporary solution for an emergency power outage. Under a normal power outage, it generally only last for a few hours and I just need to keep the lights on. For a few days outage, I need heat or ac and enough power to keep a couple of freezers running. I have a grid tied charging system to keep a battery bank charged up. This battery bank is connected to my sheds where I keep my freezers. I have enough battery backup to run my freezers about 4 days with no grid power or generator running. I can recharge those batteries by hooking jumpers from my truck battery and letting the truck run if I have to. The battery backup system is a generac brand. It is automatic with a auto transfer switch. For emergency heat, I have firewood, kerosene, and propane. For keeping the house cool, I only have my shade trees and my generator. It is what it is. I can get by with no power for a while if I have to, I dont want to have too so I got a generator. During the snow storm about three years ago, I was the only house to have lights on. I had a lot of jealous neighbors. My 8000w generator kept the lights on, cooked breakfast, allowed for hot showers, kept the 1500w electric electric heater going and kept my freezers safe, altho it was cold outside and since the freezers are located in my outside sheds, they didnt really require a lot of power. I do have to be selective about what I have turned on. For example, I dont run the well pump and my hvac at the same time. I dont try to run the electric cloths dryer and cook breakfast at the same time, things like that. If one looks at owning a generator for what its intended to be, you dont have to spend $10000+ for something you might only use for a few hours or one or two days. I guess one just needs to ask themselves if they need everything in their house to be on 24/7, or if they can get by with a little inconvience for a day or two if they have to. Even the biggest generator isnt going to run forever if you run out of fuel. Even a little generator will keep the lights on if one is careful about what they use.

 

[Okie]

You say that most of your home appliance are on Propane.

 

[stihlaficionado]

I think a lot of people are thinking generators are meant to power everything in their homes just like the grid. Well they can if you want to spend the money to be able to do so. I look at my generator as a temporary solution for an emergency power outage. Under a normal power outage, it generally only last for a few hours and I just need to keep the lights on. For a few days outage, I need heat or ac and enough power to keep a couple of freezers running. I have a grid tied charging system to keep a battery bank charged up. This battery bank is connected to my sheds where I keep my freezers. I have enough battery backup to run my freezers about 4 days with no grid power or generator running. I can recharge those batteries by hooking jumpers from my truck battery and letting the truck run if I have to. The battery backup system is a generac brand. It is automatic with a auto transfer switch. For emergency heat, I have firewood, kerosene, and propane. For keeping the house cool, I only have my shade trees and my generator. It is what it is. I can get by with no power for a while if I have to, I dont want to have too so I got a generator. During the snow storm about three years ago, I was the only house to have lights on. I had a lot of jealous neighbors. My 8000w generator kept the lights on, cooked breakfast, allowed for hot showers, kept the 1500w electric electric heater going and kept my freezers safe, altho it was cold outside and since the freezers are located in my outside sheds, they didnt really require a lot of power. I do have to be selective about what I have turned on. For example, I dont run the well pump and my hvac at the same time. I dont try to run the electric cloths dryer and cook breakfast at the same time, things like that. If one looks at owning a generator for what its intended to be, you dont have to spend $10000+ for something you might only use for a few hours or one or two days. I guess one just needs to ask themselves if they need everything in their house to be on 24/7, or if they can get by with a little inconvience for a day or two if they have to. Even the biggest generator isnt going to run forever if you run out of fuel. Even a little generator will keep the lights on if one is careful about what they use.

The lines are buried on that small mountain ,but the lines leading to it are not. Over the last 8 years we've only gotten a handful of "power outage"
warnings by Avista, and all of those in the winter months.

The well will have a 5,000 gallon catchment tank & it's 20 ft or so above the house on a slope, so I guess gravity will supply what we need?

Is there some type of calculator that goes by sq ft/need to power generated?

 

[composter]

I am on the Gulf Coast, know as Hurricane country! We rarely need back up generators (over the last 15 years), but you never know. In 1979, we were without power for 11 days, and I had only a 800 W portable generator, but it saved refrigerators for us, my Mom, and an employee.
My concern is fuel, since I live in a neighborhood. Storing quantities of gasoline or diesel is dangerous here, and if not used, it is going to degrade. Propane seems the safest long term choice, but I don't know if even that is legal. It is a tragedy when power is out, gas stations are dead, and it is 95-100 degrees! Oh yes, and the freezers! I haven't found a reasonable solution yet.

 

[muddstopper]

Is there some type of calculator that goes by sq ft/need to power generated?

It doesnt go by sqft. It goes by power required. To determine how much amps you need you have to look at what you are trying to run. Most every electric devices I have looked at will have a tag somewhere that tells you how much power they use. Big items like a well pump or refrigerator will have a starting amps and run amps. My 1500w electric heater I think just lists amps.The starting amps are what it requires to get the device up and running and the run amps are what the device needs to keep running. generators are generally labeled as xxxsurge watts and xxx run amps. This means the generator will handle the startup load of your appliance up to the rated surge amps. If you read all your lables and add the the listed numbers together you will probably total up more than your currently installed grid tied breaker box, but in real world, you probably dont run everything at max load at the same time. For instance, your well pump only kicks on when you are using water. You heatpump only kicks on as temperatures fluctuate. Same for your water heater. My refrigerator takes a big load, surge, when it turns on, but this is only momentary and it runs at a lot less amps after that initial startup surge. I actually used to know what those numbers where, but I havent looked in about three years. To size your generator, You need to knowall those numbers, add them together and then decide which appliance you can live without in an emergency situation. You can always turn off things you dont have to have and turn on things you only need temporary. I can tell when my generator is starting to load up because I have to many things turned on. Generators are kinda loud and the sound will tell you when the furnace or well pump kicks on, you might see the lights dim inside the house, all kinds of clues if one pays attention. If you are trying to size a whole house generator, you can look at past power bill and see just how much power you use each months. I would choose a few summer months as well as a few winter months. This will tell you how much power you normally used in the past and give you an ideal as to how much power you willl need for the future. Do the math and size accordingly.

Or you can do what I did. I lucked into a free 8000w generator and hooked it to the house. After using it for three years I decided I want (notice I said want and not need) something a little bigger so thats what I am doing now. I will note I also discovered I dont really need something as big as I already have, but I am a electricity hog.

 

[pdqdl]

Sir,

Can you kindly tell me what rule I am breaking? I am all about education and learning.

Bill

How can you be so dense that you quote my answer in the same digital breath that you ask me what the rule is?

The new rule is that the refrigeration unit must be intact, otherwise they reject it.

This is undoubtedly a Missouri law, and probably doesn't apply in your state.

 

[Bill G]

That's not new, Kawasaki did the same thing.

SR

Kawasaki also sold engines to Deere that only Deere could sell parts for. The engine in a 425 lawnmower is an example.

 

[Bill G]

All the above being said, it costs a lot of money for us to generate our own electric barring solar and wind. My Generac is natural gas fired and when running 24-7 will cost me $400 a week to use. I’ve been thru this once or twice but was sure glad to have it! Our power here in W.Va is 7 cents a kilowatt hour almost lowest in the nation because it’s coal fired. Do your maintenance on your generator and it will last for years and years.

It looks like our summer rate is 8.1 cents here, love that coal. We have two coal fueled plants within 12 miles of here

 

[Bill G]

New to this, but will need one capable of providing power to 3,000 sq ft, plus an outbuilding
400 amp box

Most if not all of the other homes built in the area have propane generators

Most reliable brands?

Folks will disagree but the short answer in 40 kw which is one hell of a load for a house and one building.