Barber chair

[Westboastfaller]

Question... If I am trying to fall a leaning tree in the opposite direction of the lean, If I get a rope up in it and can pull on the rope hard enough that I see the canopy move in the direction that I want it to fall, is that a 100% indication that I can pull it on over once I have made my face cut and back cut? Assuming I am high enough to get good leverage and pulling on the trunk, and not up so high that I am pulling on just the canopy branches. Would that hold true for any size tree with any amount of lean? If I pull too hard it could barberchair, correct?

I would say yes to me and no to you...WHY...because it's very subjective.
Again! you are pulling what with what?
Your saw sounds realy nice 'doged in' BTW. good and sharp too! Running a little rich or it was a bit cold?

 

[Trx250r180]

This is a theory I plan to try in the not too distant future, away from anything that matters:

1. A leaning Pine or Oak, >30" in diameter, & at least 75' tall.
2. Set up a pull line at leas 30' off the ground.
3. Start my back cut to about 6", & palm an 8" wedge, easy tapping with axe, till it stops.
4. Tension pull line, either 5/8" or 3/4" stable braid, with my 5:1 MA.
5. Cut a steep face with about 30% dia of the butt, ensuring no dutchman.
6. Further tension my pull line: nothing crazy, but looking for movement vs. previous resistance.
7. Bore in & set my hinge: exactly by the book.
8. Tension a tick more.

At this point, the compression wood should be compromised, no?

9. Continue my back cut with short wedges, working the wedges, pull line, & saw, & watching the top.

I know this sounds long winded, but I'm thinking of a possible future trick for leaning trees near save trees or structures...

Please Critique.

All this is based on the tree being solid, & not Populas, although, with a strap, & the bore cut, why not?

I would just make humbolt face and a conventional back cut when get deep enough to set a couple wedges pound them in , use the sight lines on the saw to cut even with the face,if you bore bacwards seems like you will not lift the tree as good and it will set back when cut your strap ,i would stop cutting when hinge is about 4 inches thick ,then pound wedges and tug your line now see if can break the hinge ,with a thick hinge it should fall directon of the face cut,even if pull the line at an angle so it dont fall on you.if cant break the hinge may have to keep cutting but keep it thick as can so goes where you want.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I am a hack so if one of the pro's have a better idea then just listen to them. But here is what works for me when I want to pull a tree against it's natural lean. I am also open to constructive criticism if I am doing something wrong.

First have a chain, rope, or (least preferably) cable that has a breaking strength several times the weight of what you are attempting to pull over.
1) Get up as high as you can to fasten the line to the tree while not getting so high that you run the risk of breaking the trunk if you pull on it to hard.
2) Once you have the line secured put a little bit of tension on it.
3) Then put in your face.
4) Then tighten up again, if the tree will let you.
5) Now you are ready for the back cut. I find this is best executed with someone else on hand so they can do the tightening (either cranking on the chain hoist or driving the vehicle) while you watch the tree. If I am pulling with a truck I will advise the driver to put it in gear and if tree allows it to start rolling forward just go with it. As you start the back cut you can judge if it is opening up or not. Have the "puller" put a little more tension on the line if it isn't moving after you have put in a good back cut. DO NOT over stress things or something is prone to break (the line, the trunk, the hinge, or the pulling vehicle/anchor) and things will go to heck quickly. If you have done things right usually the tree will get over it's center of gravity around the time you get done with the face cut and come down where you want it.

WARNING and I learned this the hard way, luckily without damage. If the tree is tipped too far back or has a decent amount of side lean you will want to find a different way to drop it. Otherwise you run the risk of having the hinge explode and the tree tipping 90 degrees to where you want it to go.

Of course no two trees are the same. I know with the aspens I frequently deal with there is a high risk of advanced core rot higher up in the tree and they could blow up at any time.

Hope this makes sense and if I have any fatal flaws in my procedures I am open to suggestions.

Get back to the shack HACK...lol oh ok you said constructive criticism, not insults. Honestly Steve, I was taught how to turf trees of the power lines by one of the best CUA'S on the coast here. He is also the one that taught me the 100% rule as well off the lean 180°. 1, 2,3 and 4, I would give you an A+
#5...? Mostly sounds right. It should not go over when cutting, the pull is to stand it back up only. When back cut is in then go from the stump and signle for the completion. Faller always sets and controls the presure. Always shut your saw off and yell BACK CUT! Clear the vision path to the turfer as well to enser a safe distance with a plan. "I know a guy that killed his apprentice". turfng from a short distance and the guy was on a cel fighting with his GF and went the wrong way. Some trees will Barberchair easy. Judge tention from below; done by faller and not when you are not looking as in busy doing something else. If they tention up when you are not looking have then slack it back off. (Sometimes you can't tell)
You always controll your environment don't assume, don't miss a step. Back up with wedges is a great idea.
Yeah this guy...my buddy Ken took a 5ft maples that a bunch of CUA'S would not do. It was almost flat with the line over a hill. He used 3 turfer, two bull ropes and a cable centre line, 180° Off the lean. 100° only.

He even asked my opinion once, which was suprising because he would always say "fallers are chit to me, theyj always put out the line"..lol



Steve awesome, if it's good enough for Ken it's good enough for everbody! (Standard practice)
In my area you realy have to be careful of the Barberchair on the, cherry, birch, alder cottonwood, because they are fast growing on the coast. As long as we all know it can be apples and oranges.

 

[KiwiBro]

A bit off topic, sorry fellas, but just interested if anyone else has had that knot in their stomach when they have put all the pulling tension they dare or can apply, on a leaner and the biartch doesn't wanna cooperate? Things can unravel a fair bit from that point on for us idjits that reach that point

 

[Westboastfaller]

if cant break the hinge may have to keep cutting but keep it thick as can so goes where you want.

or you end up wearing it.

I want to be a Cow-boy ba-by

 

[Westboastfaller]

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=v4CuQfMmyYk

 

[Marshy]

 

[Woody912]

Question... If I am trying to fall a leaning tree in the opposite direction of the lean, If I get a rope up in it and can pull on the rope hard enough that I see the canopy move in the direction that I want it to fall, is that a 100% indication that I can pull it on over once I have made my face cut and back cut? Assuming I am high enough to get good leverage and pulling on the trunk, and not up so high that I am pulling on just the canopy branches. Would that hold true for any size tree with any amount of lean? If I pull too hard it could barberchair, correct?

I have cut 100's of trees like this the last few yrs, mostly wild cherry ( fence row trees) using chains and my pickup facing towards the tree, chains 10-15' off the ground. Tension the chain after I put in my face cut, I make my back cut relatively high because I think it provides a slight margin of error. Some disagree. Get a wedge in as soon as I can mostly to monitor the movement of the tree and have the truck drive gradually walk the tree back over center of gravity at which time I may gun the back cut or cut to a hinge and walk away and pull it down depending on other factors, mostly side lean. We have yet to chain one in spite of some pretty serious pulling. Your results may vary

 

[Bwildered]

View attachment 551592 View attachment 551591 Speaking of falling, I don't get why this snow hasn't fallen off my outhouse.

It's not warm enough for the snow to slide off the iron roof, but the aroma has forced the snow to do what it can to escape!
Peeuwski

 

[hseII]

I don't understand the back cut if you plan to bore cut - can you please elaborate on that?

Thanks.

Philbert

The purpose was to Get enough back cut complete to set wedges & leave room to continue the back cut.

The purpose of boring in was to set the hinge & remove some of the compressed wood: about a bar's with worth plus whatever needed to complete the hinge.

I have been known to over think things, & after reading other's posts, it seems this would be one of those times.

 

[Marshy]

The purpose was to Get enough back cut complete to set wedges & leave room to continue the back cut.

The purpose of boring in was to set the hinge & remove some of the compressed wood: about a bar's with worth plus whatever needed to complete the hinge.

I have been known to over think things, & after reading other's posts, it seems this would be one of those times.

The compression wood isn't holding the tree, the tension wood is. If your going to do the back cut first then go all the way with it you'll be more productive instead of cut, pound, cut pound. The wedges will replace that compression wood. What you don't want to do is remove any of the tension wood before your ready to move the tree and you don't want to have to go back on the compression side after you've remove tension wood. Once you remove the tension wood the tree is going to want to move so set the back cut and bang the wedges in hard before removing tension wood. Just my 0.02$

 

[Trx250r180]

The purpose was to Get enough back cut complete to set wedges & leave room to continue the back cut.

The purpose of boring in was to set the hinge & remove some of the compressed wood: about a bar's with worth plus whatever needed to complete the hinge.

I have been known to over think things, & after reading other's posts, it seems this would be one of those times.

I would be worried about it setting back and pinching my blade.....

I would only bore cut if the tree has lean in direction of fall.

 

[Philbert]

I would be concerned about removing tension wood, encouraging a barber chair.

I understand bore cutting to remove the intermediate wood (not sure of the right term), leaving only the hinge and a holding 'strap'.

I was shown to wedge a bore cut from both sides, if the tree diameter is large enough. But if the tree is leaning enough to worry about barber chairing, the wedges may not be needed.

Philbert

 

[Marshy]

I don't think I've said this in this particular thread but it's worth saying.

Any time you have wood chair its a shear stress failure of the fiber. Wood fibers are perform poorly in shear stress.

When you have a leaning tree or over hung branch (cantilevered) the shear stress is at its absolute highest where the wood fibers in tension transition to fibers in compression. There's an invisible 2D plane through the body of wood.

By bore cutting the tree to are significantly reducing the amount of shear in the fibers by creating a "dead space" between the tension and compression fibers.

If all you do it start cutting the tension fibers then the load of the tree is put into the remaining fibers in tension which increases the shear stress until it fails.

I thought that might entertain you guys.

 

[svk]

Get back to the shack HACK...lol oh ok you said constructive criticism, not insults. Honestly Steve, I was taught how to turf trees of the power lines by one of the best CUA'S on the coast here. He is also the one that taught me the 100% rule as well off the lean 180°. 1, 2,3 and 4, I would give you an A+
#5...? Mostly sounds right. It should not go over when cutting, the pull is to stand it back up only. When back cut is in then go from the stump and signle for the completion. Faller always sets and controls the presure. Always shut your saw off and yell BACK CUT! Clear the vision path to the turfer as well to enser a safe distance with a plan. "I know a guy that killed his apprentice". turfng from a short distance and the guy was on a cel fighting with his GF and went the wrong way. Some trees will Barberchair easy. Judge tention from below; done by faller and not when you are not looking as in busy doing something else. If they tention up when you are not looking have then slack it back off. (Sometimes you can't tell)
You always controll your environment don't assume, don't miss a step. Back up with wedges is a great idea.
Yeah this guy...my buddy Ken took a 5ft maples that a bunch of CUA'S would not do. It was almost flat with the line over a hill. He used 3 turfer, two bull ropes and a cable centre line, 180° Off the lean. 100° only.

He even asked my opinion once, which was suprising because he would always say "fallers are chit to me, theyj always put out the line"..lol



Steve awesome, if it's good enough for Ken it's good enough for everbody! (Standard practice)
In my area you realy have to be careful of the Barberchair on the, cherry, birch, alder cottonwood, because they are fast growing on the coast. As long as we all know it can be apples and oranges.

Appreciate the thoughts very much.

Please remind me what the "100 percent" rule is?

 

[Trx250r180]

I like that guys demo videos,that is not too far from here so same kind of trees.

 

[Marshy]

Wow, who would of bored this? Thats what crossed my mind at first. Damn.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Someone said that by roping a tree you are making a leaner, but in fact every tree is a leaner as soon as you put your saw into it. A tree falls by making it lean.

 

[hseII]

Wow, who would of bored this? Thats what crossed my mind at first. Damn.

Me,
But I understand his logic also. That one would have been tricky regardless.

It's all but a given around home that a mature poplar or maple will be doodie.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Philbert]

Wow, who would of bored this?

Hard to follow due to the videography. No real clear view of the tree to judge lean.

I was concerned about his back cut hitting the other trunks, and might have thought about a bore cut just for that reason. Don't understand his comment, 'glad I didn't bore cut that . . .'? (4:45)

Philbert