Barber chair

[Westboastfaller]

Lol, my question was so elementry, even I became confused.
I see the answer now. If the tree weighed 10,000# and was relatively balanced on the stump and a 1/3 face was sawn in, then 3 thousand, 3hundred and 33 pounds would be in front of the hinge and the balance of the weight would be behind the hinge, thus making the tree less susceptable to falling in the intended direction, given there was no dutchman. So wedges would be needed unless a good wind came along.

WH-WHA-WHAT..lol
I just saw your, 333lb
I was lost.
Anyway, someone got off with a LB somewhere? How about 11% hinge and 3333lb In the front 1,111 over the hinge and 5555 behind I'm still looking for that lb
Who smoked it?

 

[Gypo Logger]

WH-WHA-WHAT..lol
I just saw your, 333lb
I was lost.
Anyway, someone got off with an LB somewhere? How about 11% hinge and 3333lb. In the front 1,111 over the hinge and 5555 behind I'm still looking for that lb
Who smoked it?

Lol, I shouldn't be let loose in the woods.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Strong little saw, impressive!

The edit part the edit part?

It kind of starts getting confusing because we started originally talking about back leaners. So we start talking about nearly balanced trees at 50% give or take. Providing you chase your wedges
(or not) but back it up by wedges it will in no way be problematic if it does sit back on the wedges as it wasn’t a heavily leaner to begin with. Fast and easy enough to wedge like that but you spend a little more time on the undercuts but you make up on trees that go without help due to the deeper cut.



If it sits back will it sit back further?

Do a few scenarios of trees setting back without a wedge.
One at 25% and another at 50%

An easy for everbody exercise is put a pen under a cel phone on a table.

Move it down 25% representing the undercut and down to 50%

I just did it with a 28" bar on the dresser,
which is a true 30" (representing a 30" tree. The difference was a 1/4

30" tree 130ft tall
1560" ÷ 30" = 52 × .250 = top moves 13" at 50% U /C further than at 25% if it was to set back without the wedge.

I'll do a scenerio on a smaller diameter and explain a few more complications that can make a little tree harder to wedge.


The things "between the lines"

 

[VW Splitter]

Question... If I am trying to fall a leaning tree in the opposite direction of the lean, If I get a rope up in it and can pull on the rope hard enough that I see the canopy move in the direction that I want it to fall, is that a 100% indication that I can pull it on over once I have made my face cut and back cut? Assuming I am high enough to get good leverage and pulling on the trunk, and not up so high that I am pulling on just the canopy branches. Would that hold true for any size tree with any amount of lean? If I pull too hard it could barberchair, correct?

 

[square1]

Did @hanniedog ever get his tree on the ground?

 

[NSMaple1]

Question... If I am trying to fall a leaning tree in the opposite direction of the lean, If I get a rope up in it and can pull on the rope hard enough that I see the canopy move in the direction that I want it to fall, is that a 100% indication that I can pull it on over once I have made my face cut and back cut? Assuming I am high enough to get good leverage and pulling on the trunk, and not up so high that I am pulling on just the canopy branches. Would that hold true for any size tree with any amount of lean? If I pull too hard it could barberchair, correct?

Don't think there's anything 100% in this game.

I'd say it's a sign you might be able to. It could also go somewhere you don't want it to, depending on other things like the hinge letting go on one side, or another tree catching a limb, or the wind....

 

[Marshy]

Question... If I am trying to fall a leaning tree in the opposite direction of the lean, If I get a rope up in it and can pull on the rope hard enough that I see the canopy move in the direction that I want it to fall, is that a 100% indication that I can pull it on over once I have made my face cut and back cut? Assuming I am high enough to get good leverage and pulling on the trunk, and not up so high that I am pulling on just the canopy branches. Would that hold true for any size tree with any amount of lean? If I pull too hard it could barberchair, correct?

As said, nothing is 100%.
I wouldn't be real concerned with it charing but more concerned with pulling the but off the stump. A lot is going to depend on how strong the hinge is and the direction/angle you are pulling the tree and how much lean you are trying to over come, lots of variables to consider.

 

[hanniedog]

Nope tree is still standing. Decided to wait on a professional named mother nature to get it on the ground.

 

[Philbert]

Don't think there's anything 100% in this game.

As said, nothing is 100%.

+1

Ropes break. Wind blows. You are just loading a little spring tension in the tree, but no guarantee that it would overcome mass and momentum.

Philbert

 

[NSMaple1]

I went at a standing dead maple once. Wasn't a very good situation. It was pretty big (couple feet across at the bottom), and it was starting to shed dead limbs. After cutting a notch and finding a cavity, and some sober further thought, I put the saw away & went & got a couple of long chains and a tractor. Managed to get it around it as high as I could get it (maybe 12' - there was a limb up there I could throw it around then go from there). Tied the other end around the FEL & back away slowly. That thing exploded in a way I never expected - kind of all landed in a big heap in multiple pieces.

 

[hanniedog]

Could borrow a neighbors track loader and just push it over

 

[svk]

Question... If I am trying to fall a leaning tree in the opposite direction of the lean, If I get a rope up in it and can pull on the rope hard enough that I see the canopy move in the direction that I want it to fall, is that a 100% indication that I can pull it on over once I have made my face cut and back cut? Assuming I am high enough to get good leverage and pulling on the trunk, and not up so high that I am pulling on just the canopy branches. Would that hold true for any size tree with any amount of lean? If I pull too hard it could barberchair, correct?

I am a hack so if one of the pro's have a better idea then just listen to them. But here is what works for me when I want to pull a tree against it's natural lean. I am also open to constructive criticism if I am doing something wrong.

First have a chain, rope, or (least preferably) cable that has a breaking strength several times the weight of what you are attempting to pull over.
1) Get up as high as you can to fasten the line to the tree while not getting so high that you run the risk of breaking the trunk if you pull on it to hard.
2) Once you have the line secured put a little bit of tension on it.
3) Then put in your face.
4) Then tighten up again, if the tree will let you.
5) Now you are ready for the back cut. I find this is best executed with someone else on hand so they can do the tightening (either cranking on the chain hoist or driving the vehicle) while you watch the tree. If I am pulling with a truck I will advise the driver to put it in gear and if tree allows it to start rolling forward just go with it. As you start the back cut you can judge if it is opening up or not. Have the "puller" put a little more tension on the line if it isn't moving after you have put in a good back cut. DO NOT over stress things or something is prone to break (the line, the trunk, the hinge, or the pulling vehicle/anchor) and things will go to heck quickly. If you have done things right usually the tree will get over it's center of gravity around the time you get done with the face cut and come down where you want it.

WARNING and I learned this the hard way, luckily without damage. If the tree is tipped too far back or has a decent amount of side lean you will want to find a different way to drop it. Otherwise you run the risk of having the hinge explode and the tree tipping 90 degrees to where you want it to go.

Of course no two trees are the same. I know with the aspens I frequently deal with there is a high risk of advanced core rot higher up in the tree and they could blow up at any time.

Hope this makes sense and if I have any fatal flaws in my procedures I am open to suggestions.

 

[NSMaple1]

Keep in mind that pulling on a tree is in effect making it a leaner.

Therefore also making it more susceptible to the topic of this thread - hello Mr. Barber.

 

[Marshy]

180 from the lean is sometimes asking too much. Also, in some cases putting in the back cut first and wedges can help significantly. If there's something valuable in the way then you do not want that to be your first try with this technique.

 

[svk]

Keep in mind that pulling on a tree is in effect making it a leaner.

Therefore also making it more susceptible to the topic of this thread - hello Mr. Barber.

You are 100 percent correct. I personally have never had a pulled tree barber chair but it is very possible especially with a combination of too much holding wood and too much tension on the line.

180 from the lean is sometimes asking too much. Also, in some cases putting in the back cut first and wedges can help significantly. If there's something valuable in the way then you do not want that to be your first try with this technique.

Against a modest lean is easy in my experience. However my experience is limited to a few species so it is far from gospel.

100 percent agree with second statement.

 

[Philbert]

This has been a long thread. Almost forget that the OP started out asking about binder straps.

Philbert

 

[VW Splitter]

I am a hack so if one of the pro's have a better idea then just listen to them. But here is what works for me when I want to pull a tree against it's natural lean. I am also open to constructive criticism if I am doing something wrong.

First have a chain, rope, or (least preferably) cable that has a breaking strength several times the weight of what you are attempting to pull over.
1) Get up as high as you can to fasten the line to the tree while not getting so high that you run the risk of breaking the trunk if you pull on it to hard.
2) Once you have the line secured put a little bit of tension on it.
3) Then put in your face.
4) Then tighten up again, if the tree will let you.
5) Now you are ready for the back cut. I find this is best executed with someone else on hand so they can do the tightening (either cranking on the chain hoist or driving the vehicle) while you watch the tree. If I am pulling with a truck I will advise the driver to put it in gear and if tree allows it to start rolling forward just go with it. As you start the back cut you can judge if it is opening up or not. Have the "puller" put a little more tension on the line if it isn't moving after you have put in a good back cut. DO NOT over stress things or something is prone to break (the line, the trunk, the hinge, or the pulling vehicle/anchor) and things will go to heck quickly. If you have done things right usually the tree will get over it's center of gravity around the time you get done with the face cut and come down where you want it.

WARNING and I learned this the hard way, luckily without damage. If the tree is tipped too far back or has a decent amount of side lean you will want to find a different way to drop it. Otherwise you run the risk of having the hinge explode and the tree tipping 90 degrees to where you want it to go.

Of course no two trees are the same. I know with the aspens I frequently deal with there is a high risk of advanced core rot higher up in the tree and they could blow up at any time.

Hope this makes sense and if I have any fatal flaws in my procedures I am open to suggestions.

This is pretty much the method I have used in the past. I'm looking at a tree that's a little bigger and a little more lean than what I've done in the past. I always use a rope stronger than what my truck and pull. And I am good about keeping the hinge the same thickness all the way across. If it went the wrong way it would just be hard to drag out from down the hill. This is in Gatlinburg TN again so the bottom is burnt/hollow. The burnt/hollow quickly fades to the outside. I was going to try to cut it up about 5 foot high, which would be mostly out of the burnt/hollow.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Given that a tree is reasonably solid, there is only two things that can cause a chair other than wind, a dutchman and or too thick holding wood or aggressively yanking the tree over. That's four things. Lol
A p/u in first gear and low range on the transfer case is best.
Choking just below the crown gives plenty of mechanical advantage.
If the cutter remains at the stump to make sure the holding wood isnt too thick while the truck eases ever so slowly forward, then there should be a safety meeting first.

 

[SeMoTony]

View attachment 553316 Given that a tree is reasonably solid, there is only two things that can cause a chair other than wind, a dutchman and or too thick holding wood or aggressively yanking the tree over. That's four things. Lol
A p/u in first gear and low range on the transfer case is best.
Choking just below the crown gives plenty of mechanical advantage.
If the cutter remains at the stump to make sure the holding wood isnt too thick while the truck eases ever so slowly forward, then there should be a safety meeting first.

Just like I said about your earlier work Gypo. Your art work continues to improve

 

[Gypo Logger]

This has been a long thread. Almost forget that the OP started out asking about binder straps.

Philbert

Maybe we can talk WBF into falling a big leaner with just a ratchet strap and one fast backcut, no undercut. Lol