Barber chair

[Chris-PA]

My only concern as a guy that fells that species from time to time is, I'm wondering if you are not free handing the backcut? and not putting your dogs in the corner of mouth? (high side)

Can you explain this further - is using the dogs simply to get a faster cut, or is it to control how the bar sweeps in?

 

[Westboastfaller]

Obviously the tree Brian mentions is not one to experiment on, but I'd like to try the "steering a tree", in the woods,( read no obstacles, or barns to mash), by step cutting under the face, as @NORTHMAN Logging, you, & others discussed in another thread.

I see that as being something to add to the toolbox, provided judicious care is taken, once the experience is gained.

In no way would I do something like that in this setting, without knowing it would work based on previous experience.

You & John have provided enough diagrams & discussion to encourage safe practices to get it on the ground, & not the barn.

Thank You.


2 Rings & A Flattop, LLC Test Dummy

I dug this up from page 9 that I've been aware of. I also dug up Brian's triangle pic from page 4 yesterday.
Some may call me a procrastinater and others a great planner of my work.
I'm always planning for 'tomorrow'.

I think you and Brian are a little humble and make a little light of your "levels" .
Falling cuts are often the focus but make up a small percentage of the big picture.
Although a must to achieve and maintenance exeptable stump quality.
Its how you go about the failing. Decision makeing skills is huge.
You guys show great common sense and maturity. There is always a fear when things are written on the Internet out this trade, Just because something is said doesn't mean it's chiseled in stone and it's a 'cure all' we after all, don't monitor each other's common sense when tasks are played out. One guy was asking if we could give him a 100% answer on here?
That scares the heck out of me.
I wanted to use this opportunity to complement the good, (and there are many)and bring it back home to the founndation where the focus needs to be.
There *WERE* many guys that *WERE* Absolute surgeons on the saw. That doesn't make ANYONE a good faller.

I'm always open for any 'side bar' convo.
from anyone,
But let's be clear, advice may influence decisions but it can't dictate one's decision. Saftey is everyone's responsibility.

Well you are very polite
Nice hanging out.

Same Hear.




With the triangle Coots Bay, I see the potential of the holding wood splitting before the "normal" 10% of the dia. is reached: that was why I mentioned adding the bore cut to set the hinge.

The original context was in discussing a back leaner, but the same logic,( or ignorance), applies here.

I want a solid hinge that is not heavy or light on either side of the stump, but acceptable for what's needed on that tree. My concern is,( because I've had learners go before I wanted them to), that the back cut will get to a certain point, the hinge gives due to the above pressure, & the hinge will be insufficient for the intended lay.

Right, like a said before, we all find our styles. Tiger Woods was on top of everyone and took 18 months out to reconstruct his swing. Maybe he wasn't talking about Golf now that I think of it.
Sure we was. I've changed things years ago on the advice of another that were better for me then but now I think it's time to change back because I've changed as well changed other things. I think I'm going to start doing my angle cut on my Humboldt first now as I once did. I set from the front now and not the corner.
I still have to do it right anyway but setting from the front gives my a natural reference of level to tip.
Regardless of which one you do first you got to do it right as the first cut sets everything up. Looking back, You can't tip level from the side on a regular basis with out a flat cut you can reference off of so you chase the cut to hit your aim and you are left with a çockeyed undercut.

If your tree has a forward and a low lean my concern with boring from the high side is getting pinched. It can be a tough way to test the waters. Having said that, cutting any of your holding wood on such a tree will make matters worse such as you speak, unnecessary! I'm all for that you are saying. I'd try tickle the shell from the bottom to test the side bind when you have the maximum amount of meat. If its feeling good then cut 'half' your 'tee' or at the least ring the botton sap wood. Then work it from the top to complete your objective. Peal the top evenly cuting down and not through the back. Just a scenerio; some food for thought.
It's certainly not advisable to cut either side of your holding wood or even tapering the top when you have side bind.
For your best bet is to use the Johnny HMT, and set it after the undercut and all the way to the bottom you want to hold all the holding wood as long as you can. You are not booting the tree you're holding the tree. I mentioned about taking a few kerfs out and creating a vertical face.
You can actually bore that face. It can be your first cut If you want; if you are not dealing with too much side bind.
If you don't want it to look like such a big back step, you don't have to utilize the whole 4". You can also bore the thickness of your holding wood you want to peal and it doesn't have to go to the bottom to help


,

 

[ncpete]

I don't have any time behind a 390/288 so I'm unsure. It a good running saw, slightly better after a base gasket delete.

I miss the snow in NNY!
Nice running saws - thanks for the quick vid from the North Country.

 

[Marshy]

I miss the snow in NNY!
Nice running saws - thanks for the quick vid from the North Country.

Thanks! We just had a small bit of lake effect and got a foot of snow. We were on the very edge of the band, 20 mins north got 44" of snow in about 48hrs.

 

[Westboastfaller]

This guy was extremely lucky!

Can you explain this further - is using the dogs simply to get a faster cut, or is it to control how the bar sweeps in?

I set the angle, could be one dog in the tree, proper filing/sharpening is the only thing that keeps it straight, the dogs will only make it bind with round filing. Sweeping of the bar is positioning. Positioning sets up the flow and the dogs control the flow and the speed. Location! Location! Location!
This young guy above (he is not a faller yet) On a few different threads and ALL the people that have commented including myself; nobody have mentioned that he he didn't even have an undercut In that front leg 1/3 of the tree. He actually would have been safer had he not put an undercut In ithe tree at all (Not that is the answer, but factual)
The tree was sagging forward for over 12 sec. IF you flip back between 54 & 56 seconds you will see the movment start.
With the hollow structure and undercut on the lower 2/3 of the tree, it contorted
and blow up as it was allowed to sage on that side. Education is everything.
I'm not here to tell anyone what to do, I feel I have a responsibility to tell people indirectly what not to do (hopefully). The rest? The majority should be put to note for prehaps a future reference. That may be 20 yrs from now and it falls into play.
"The light bulb moments" I had one from Bob Walker that took me 17 yrs to answer, but I answered it to myself when It was my time.

Let's talk about being out of position, missing steps and/or out of sequence.

About 'the vidio';
Certain steps we just can't miss, like looking up, planing. It's a system that has a back up for a back up (saftey net)
If you do miss a step or need to miss a step to overcome a falling difficulty then you have your net. Out of sequence is missed steps and missed nets The only piece standing on that tree was where he didn't put the undercut. If he would have had a back strap then no problem. Another saftey net that I always use and that's ringing the sapwood as soon as you can on large diameter or leaners. In this event, his azz needed to be backing up the hill and no jerky actions. As soon as he could reach his cut line from tip to mouth corner he needed to thin the shell out then go to the back one handed if need be, doged in looking up and staying in top position. Often it's the other way around and I would finish standing at the back up the hill and saftey trail dictates. (Saftey trail that he didn't know about) The way of the land and a few things tip me of that the tree may have had a rope in it.


The position of the corner allows the flow and fast pull off the pivot. Apart from the reasons why we do it for wood and trunk failure , often with Hemlock snags, if you stop the flow, you stop the sag and you snap the top. You just don't do it. There is no free lunch on a steep hill.

You also need to file for the dogs VS power and it is better for you hands over time.
Guys that block wood may file a little now aggressively in order to tip cut.

 

[bitzer]

The no face coos bay is how they cut leaners before the power head days. Chop both side until it goes.

 

[Westboastfaller]

The no face coos bay is how they cut leaners before the power head days. Chop both side until it goes.

I did not know that. Makes sense.
This chit has all been past down, really nothing new other than trending, awarness basically. One that comes to mind here is rain fall. I have heard some violent slides. One of the best big wood fallers I know, he lost his dad in a slide in the 80'z
Getting any weather yet or still warm?
Has been about 42F all week up the AK HWY. Sure has change in 10 yrs. Hard to do business.
.

 

[bitzer]

I did not know that. Makes sense.
This chit has all been past down, really nothing new other than trending, awarness basically. One that comes to mind here is rain fall. I have heard some violent slides. One of the best big wood fallers I know, he lost his dad in a slide in the 80'z
Getting any weather yet or still warm?
Has been about 42F all week up the AK HWY. Sure has change in 10 yrs. Hard to do business.
.

Yep pretty sure we have just adapted several 1000 year old cutting styles to the equipment we have now. The physics of it hasn't changed. I'd say logging is the oldest profession. Then came the soiled doves to keep them from killing each other on Sundays. We had a long stretch almost two weeks of upper 30s and low 40s and rain. We usually get a few days of January thaw, but this was bad. Luckily the swamp I was cutting had so much frost it never really came out and I was working while others sat on their hands. Back to winter as usual this week. Single digits tonight.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Yep pretty sure we have just adapted several 1000 year old cutting styles to the equipment we have now. The physics of it hasn't changed. I'd say logging is the oldest profession. Then came the soiled doves to keep them from killing each other on Sundays. We had a long stretch almost two weeks of upper 30s and low 40s and rain. We usually get a few days of January thaw, but this was bad. Luckily the swamp I was cutting had so much frost it never really came out and I was working while others sat on their hands. Back to winter as usual this week. Single digits tonight.

Bitzer, sounds like you've been cutting Silver Maple lately. The ones I cut mostly had multiple trunks out of the stump.
Lots of mosquitoes when cut in the summer.

 

[Westboastfaller]

^^I should say one of the best big wood faller on the BC coast. The guy ended up in a fast running Creek and almost drowned
He go pulled out from a longline (helicopter and could barely hold on.
Ok ..so he's cutting this Cedar and stand ing on this few inch stub that he cut off.
He is in the middle of the tree and he gets pinched...he can't get his saw out so he jumps off. Saw comes out. He hops back on and starts cutting and gets pinched again. Hops off and saw comes out...wondering WTF is going on? Hops back up it starts binding again, he's pissed off and starts getting aggressive.
It cuts through and he goes rolling down the hill. (He was standing on a 'sucker' it started from the inside of the tree and grew underground and back up on the outside. So he hits the bottom and looks up and the tree is comming down...crazy.
This grandfather was killed on the hill too. He quit about three year ago when two guys he broke in were killed in one Summer

 

[Philbert]

The no face coos bay is how they cut leaners before the power head days. Chop both side until it goes.

Imagine that it would be hard to do a bore cut with an axe . . .

Philbert

 

[Gypo Logger]

^^I should say one of the best big wood faller on the BC coast. The guy ended up in a fast running Creek and almost drowned
He go pulled out from a longline (helicopter and could barely hold on.
Ok ..so he's cutting this Cedar and stand ing on this few inch stub that he cut off.
He is in the middle of the tree and he gets pinched...he can't get his saw out so he jumps off. Saw comes out. He hops back on and starts cutting and gets pinched again. Hops off and saw comes out...wondering WTF is going on? Hops back up it starts binding again, he's pissed off and starts getting aggressive.
It cuts through and he goes rolling down the hill. (He was standing on a 'sucker' it started from the inside of the tree and grew underground and back up on the outside. So he hits the bottom and looks up and the tree is comming down...crazy.
This grandfather was killed on the hill too. He quit about three year ago when two guys he broke in were killed in one Summer

Reminds me of the BC faller who was killed by a three foot cedar when he thought his 2100 could cut faster than the tree could fall with just a backcut.
I think I could do that though with my 385 if I could summon the balls, but I'd rather have a vagina, because those things can take a real pounding. Lol

 

[Westboastfaller]

If I smack an aged cedar realy hard, then I won't putt an undercut In It. Cranked downhill.

 

[Trx250r180]

You also need to file for the dogs VS power and it is better for you hands over time.
Guys that block wood may file a little now aggressively in order to tip cut.

Like this for the dogs ? I notice the more up and down i do the side ,the less grabby it is .

 

[svk]

How would you guys suggest cutting a tree like this to put it on the ground without surprises? I just want to fall it towards the lean. The cross hatched is the assumed depth of rot judging by the punky wood on the outside. It's about an 18" aspen.

 

[rwoods]

For you BBR fans, begin at 5:15.



Ron

 

[ncpete]

For you BBR fans, begin at 5:15.



Ron

Mac 10-10 --- running one hell of a bar, it would seem, for a 54cc saw?

 

[Gypo Logger]

How would you guys suggest cutting a tree like this to put it on the ground without surprises? I just want to fall it towards the lean. The cross hatched is the assumed depth of rot judging by the punky wood on the outside. It's about an 18" aspen.

View attachment 555847

I'd just treat it as any other traditional tree. Place your undercut and saw in the backcut with no hesitation.
If in doubt, I'd be asking Golickit or Mandy Crack. Those guys are the real deal.

 

[rwoods]

Mac 10-10 --- running one hell of a bar, it would seem, for a 54cc saw?

He has some other videos of that little 10-10 cutting some greater than bar length softwoods.

I like the guy and hope he doesn't get hurt making those videos. In this one he interrupts his retreat to dust off the camera then continues to a safe distance. Maybe he was already at a safe distance but it doesn't look like it.

Ron

 

[Chris-PA]

Mac 10-10 --- running one hell of a bar, it would seem, for a 54cc saw?

Those McCulloch engineers knew how to get power out of an engine. My 56cc McCinderblock (SE3420, PM605) is the successor to that engine design and pulls a 24" bar surprisingly well - it's a practical, usable combination and that's the bar I keep on it.