Been Thinking About Moving to the United States

[Gypo Logger]

I never really noticed any negativity in song about Ohio, but when the police pulled me over in that state, they showed me nothing except for big respect.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I hear you brother, however, some women are worth jumping through hoops for.

Chrissie would eat you alive man...

 

[northmanlogging]

back to Ohio, home town turned into a strip mall, and child hood lost.

Ohie c,s,n,y 4 dead in ohio...

 

[madhatte]

Ha! Those are the first two songs I thought of, too!

 

[northmanlogging]

Are there any more?

 

[Westboastfaller]

I'm not real familiar with the Tongass, but its south east Alaska, 1000 acres would keep guys going for quite a while, big timber, and thick too, also going to be steep ground.

Not as simple as driving a feller buncher through and clearing 2-3 acres a day per machine.

Likely going to be a lot of hand falling and bucking, once down to a manageable size the tops can be processed but not much else.

Also likely to be a bunch of Helicopter units, imagine if you will line skidding 80 acres with one skidder that can only drag 3-4 logs at a time, and has a 10-20 minute turn time. Just this skidder is flying and burning about 900 times the fuel.

Couple that with it being in Alaska, you only get about 6 months in a good year that is workable, or less.

Some of the 80 acre units here can take months to complete, longer if road building is involved.

Your info is a little misleading to say the least. 10 to 20 min turns...they better be slinging out gold.. haha. You definitely want to be under two minute turns. I looked at the maps and they will have their drop zones
mainly on old roads from previous blocks just below the heli blocks then truck from there. Even if it was going to the water they would still truck it to the water if roads are there. Long turns don't pay.
Heli logging is not what takes so long, it's the heli falling and due diligence that takes so long and is expensive in comparison. 3.5 - 5 days an acre on average and 1.5 - 2.5 days for conventional (non limbing & very minimal bucking) . Sometimes there is very little that is fly wood and a lot of time waisted chasing **** all day. They run two pilots that switch off through a 12 hour day. One Vertol can keep up to 30 fallers in the wood of today. One machine may be on multiple jobs just to keep going. Lots of hot logging. The POW job in Thorne bay looks to be about 15-20% heli

150 MMBF is no small potatoes these days.

Thanks for the link. Now I get to pick your brain. I spent a few years on POW and in Ketchikan.
149,000,000 MBF ÷ 1200 was 124,167 Cunits X 2.8 = 349,000 Metres square (M3)
14-17 Cunits or 40-50 M3 would be a truck load.
At 8,500 acres it only works out to about one truck load per acres? it looks to me that it's approximately 80% mechanical logging which should give a lot more volume. I see a lot of small blocks off old blocks so much of it have been high graded already I would assume. Maybe certain size timber there is no stumpage fee therefore it's not in the count?
IDK seems awfully low to me. it's also a 6 to 10 year plan, say 1000 loads a year?

 

[windthrown]

Lol. Never been to Wisconsin, but I've been to Michigan and Minnesota. It probably gets colder there than here.
Minus 10f is ok here as the climate is semi arid.
Is the United States like it is in the movies? Do I need any guns if I move there? All I have is an old Marlin 30-30.

An old Marlin 30-30 is a great gun, and my favorite 30 caliber rifle. I love the lever action.

Come on down. Fill the vacuum from all the flaming liberals here like Miley Cyrus moving to Canada after Trump winning the election. Do not move to California. I may be moving to Idaho soon myself (after my mom passes) as this state is so full of flaming left wingers it has become intolerable. Also the real estate and rent prices here have become too high. Eastern Oregon is still good though. I may settle for moving there and avoid paying real estate capital gains taxes on my house sale here.

 

[windthrown]

And if you have $300k USD, you can buy my place! Right in the heart of North Oregon Cascade logging country. Logging trucks pass by my house at a rate of about 30 a day. This place is surrounded by the Mt Hood National Forest and the Portland Bull Run Water shed which are mostly planted with Douglas firs. Its 45 minutes from PDX airport, but very remote and away from the city, or even any small towns. The towns that were out this way 100 years ago are long gone. I can heat this place on 3-4 cords a year of DF, pine and some mixed hardwoods. There are lots of falling/logging jobs here. My neighbors are a tree farm, a cattle ranch, and a sheep/horse pasture. It snows here in winter but not a lot. The coldest recorded winter temp here was +4 deg. F. The coldest I have had here was +7 deg. F. The hottest it has been here was 95 deg. F. I do get a lot of rain here though: the average is 80 inches a year. But I have a well that does not quit. Ever. And it is some of the purest water in the US.

 

[madhatte]

Are there any more?

I sure can't think of any.

 

[slowp]

I sure can't think of any.

Maybe more. More people got shot there today.

Did the slash get burned?

 

[madhatte]

Thanks for the link. Now I get to pick your brain. I spent a few years on POW and in Ketchikan.
149,000,000 MBF ÷ 1200 was 124,167 Cunits X 2.8 = 349,000 Metres square (M3)
14-17 Cunits or 40-50 M3 would be a truck load.
At 8,500 acres it only works out to about one truck load per acres? it looks to me that it's approximately 80% mechanical logging which should give a lot more volume. I see a lot of small blocks off old blocks so much of it have been high graded already I would assume. Maybe certain size timber there is no stumpage fee therefore it's not in the count?
IDK seems awfully low to me. it's also a 6 to 10 year plan, say 1000 loads a year?

Yeah, I'm not sure of the logistics. I think it's largely helicopter ground, so that stretches things out a bit. I'm also not sure how the taper equations work when converting from mbf to m^3. I know it's not a straight 1-to-1, as it's not a clean conversion even from bf to cubic feet. I'd estimate a bit low like maybe 20% to accommodate the error and catch the overrun on the other side as bonus. Hopefully this is a scaled sale rather than a lump sum so that's not too much of a loss.

More people got shot there today.

Uggh, I wish we could knock that off.

 

[northmanlogging]

Maybe more. More people got shot there today.

Did the slash get burned?

Haven't read the news yet... been avoiding it for awhile...

Slash not burned all the way yet, holidays, work, wind, dentist, welding projects, tires for dumper truck... but tomorrow, tomorrow that shizz is gettin lit yo.

About 2/3's of the brush is ashes now, so one or 2 good days of a hot fire should take care of the rest.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Yeah, I'm not sure of the logistics. I think it's largely helicopter ground, so that stretches things out a bit.

Its tough to look at the ROD map on my phone as I can only see a section at a time.
At a second glance as well reading on a bit more I see the almost 2300 acres of second growth is commercial thinning.
The 6200 acres old growth looks to be about half heli with all the heli shaded purple indicating a partial cut I do believe. The massive size of a few of the heli blocks would be another indication.
Which makes sense why the volume to area would be so low.

I'm also not sure how the taper equations work when converting from mbf to m^3. I know it's not a straight 1-to-1, as it's not a clean conversion even from bf to cubic feet. I'd estimate a bit low like maybe 20% to accommodate the error and catch the overrun on the other side as bonus. Hopefully this is a scaled sale rather than a lump sum so that's not too much of a loss.

IDK 'me' man? I do get the true form of a calculated product and the breakdown of volume on a cylindrical taper. Having said that...hell no! I can't 'help you'.

The Smalian's formula will be closer to actual volume as it breaks down to m2
(1 cm)
Demention + demention ÷ 2 × L=
× 10,000 = V

The USFS system only breaks down to 0.1 of a foot or 1.2" but would actually be closer to an actual MBF. I read 3% to 7% would be the standard different. I couldn't see m2 being more than a 4 - 8% spread. I for one,, personally LOVE the way you roll with the 20% but I'd have to say ...if you ever came up with loose numbers in this socialistic crazy azz chain of comand army state I live,,
....they wound not kill you but they would send you up into no man's land (like the Yukon) to spend the last of your days earning your keeps & beer through 'your' great great wealth of knowledge of saws, off of previously banished, disgraced southern cops. seriously!

 

[madhatte]

IDK 'me' man?

Meters ^ cubed (I wish super- and subscript were a thing on this messageboard software)

The equation we use for actual volume mostly hereabouts is the Flewlling 2-point equation which I can't recall off the top of my head. What I use as a quick estimate is the frustrum of a cone which is 1/2 DBH squared times pi times height divided by somewhere between three or four depending on visible taper. That'll give you a board-foot volume pretty quickly. Divide by 12 for cubic foot. Further divide by 27 for cunit. These are very rough numbers and do not account for topwood at all.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Meters ^ cubed (I wish super- and subscript were a thing on this messageboard software)

divide by 27 for cunit.

27? 100 cubes to a cunit right?
Have to check that formula out later.

I keep a mental calculation as I go sometimes.
I will eyeball it if I know it's going to fly, 36' Cedar boned out to 8 inches is a 'bingo' at 9,500lb on a down hill pull.
That range and bigger I measure. Ones under that range I estimate the butt in inches.
Say it's a 16" and 8 " at 12.5 meters then I have a 12" average at 41ft . I need 35.3 cubic fT to = m3.
At 35 ft, I'm in the ball park with 6 ft to fill the gaps,, I'll call it a 'metre'.
All this going on whlie walking the log and singing .. "she loves me she loves me not",
as I sever each branch.

It's a funny County, I was in grade 6 when we went to the metric system but inches and pounds are not going away ever.

"Metric is a better system" ,,When it's a better system, that is. Our bucking dia are in inches and lengths in metres.

 

[madhatte]

Units, yo. Always a mess. Isn't a cunit just a cubic yard? Oughta be 27 cubic feet. So with a meter being 39" vs 36" to a yard, 35.3 cf to a meter vs 27 to a cubic yard makes good sense.

 

[northmanlogging]

I hates metrics... i hates its

 

[hseII]

Idaho, Oklahoma, even Washington will do. Anywere there is wood. I just want to be comfortable in my own skin. Kentucky and Tennesee are places I really like.
All the best, I really love you people.I am really hoping that Patty will sponsor me.

There are only fences in Oklahoma to stop the wind; 3 strand at best.

There is a reason there are so many wind turbines on I-40.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Units, yo. Always a mess.

Oughta be 27 cubic feet. So with a meter being 39" vs 36" to a yard, 35.3 cf to a meter vs 27 to a cubic yard makes good sense.

makes great sense to me.
I have no idea for the life of me why the light wasn't going on when you said 27?
Even know I thought you were thinking that. The hamster was asleep at the wheel that time.

Units, yo. Always a mess. Isn't a cunit just a cubic yard?

Its actually the volume of 100 f^3 It's funny because when I lived up in the pan all the heli cutters were talking mbf & Cunits and I thought "why in the heck are they using metric in the AK?...lol
I thought Cunit was the proper term for cubic metre. It just sounds soooo metric to me.
I see it's not widely used by the USDA.
More of a heli thing I guess. It's a good measurement for heli because it's in the power of 10 and bucking cards are on the conservative side. your just need to know your weight per f^3

 

[giver]

I hates metrics... i hates its

So do all of us in Canada.