Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[J.Noss]

Yet that test does show which oil has a higher film strength. I think that is important for all lubrication purposes.

I can remember back 10yrs ago now when "film-strength" was all the rage and many people decided that Castor oil was the best 2-cycle oil because of the fact it has an extraordinarily high film strength.. Bwalker was there to tell them that they were wrong and there were tons of good reasons not to use Castor oil in a saw engine but they continued to argue. In fact in the PF "test" I'm sure a pure Castor oil would probably do extraordinarily well too.. but it's not gonna work too well long term in a saw engine.

 

[bwalker]

My

MW distribution comments were correct. Synthetic oils have an almost perfectly uniform molecular weight, which is directly tied to volatility. The MW distribution of petroleum oils depends on how many theoretical trays they have in their fractionation column, but it will never be as uniform as base oils produced synthetically.

No they were not. For starters a two cycle oil is designed to flash and burn off. In addition it is not 1960. Base oils are incredibly uniform with modern tech.
You don't know squat about fractionating columns or modern lubricant production because if you did you wouldn't have described the situation as you did. The fractionation is the first step. There are other processes base oils run through after to make them uniform and for other purposes.
It's no secret that most of the oils that are on the Jaso FD list are synthetic and mineral blends with most using PIB as the synthetic component. If the mineral portion flashes off that's where the PIB comes into play. This is by design and it works very well, because an oil not only has to prevent metal to metal contact, it also has to burn cleanly.

 

[bwalker]

Amsoil put it to me in writing that they meet FD specifications. And it is mentioned in their

Talks cheap until you have passed the tests.

 

[bwalker]

Bizarre point of view! The entire profession of engineering is about applying theory to practice. If that did not work, nothing would be built.

You can't apply the theory...

 

[bwalker]

I'm a cheap arse too. But when I had access to free fluid analysis testing, I tested my oil every 1k miles or 100 hrs. We had a cheap Dino 15w 40 we got at cost from the shop, it never made it much past 6k before they would reccomend changing the oil before the next test. (In a nut shell the acidity levels would get too high. Everything else always seemed fine with it.) Switched to the rotella t6 5w40 and I was able to go 10k miles before the tbn levels got out of whack. At the time my wife was in collage (other side of the state) and I was hauling heavy for work and personal use nearly daily. I was putting tons of miles on the truck and I wanted oil I could get the longest life out of. I still change the filter at 5k miles with the rotella. Being able to nearly double the miles with 30% increase of cost was worth a lot back then. Haven't bothered to check and see if I'm ahead now or not with what oil prices have jumped up to.

The test doesn't have fuel dilution ie not valid for a 2 stroke.

Yep. 100%.

In a running 2 cycle motor there is very little to no fuel in the lower end as it flashes to vapor when it enters the crankcase.

 

[North by Northwest]

I can remember back 10yrs ago now when "film-strength" was all the rage and many people decided that Castor oil was the best 2-cycle oil because of the fact it has an extraordinarily high film strength.. Bwalker was there to tell them that they were wrong and there were tons of good reasons not to use Castor oil in a saw engine but they continued to argue. In fact in the PF "test" I'm sure a pure Castor oil would probably do extraordinarily well too.. but it's not gonna work too well long term in a saw engine.

Ran a lot óf castor oils back in the 70 's within sleds & mx bikes . It was a stop gap lubriciant usage , when oil technology was lacking . Gall protection during high temperature racing applications was its merit . Unfortunately it was a very dirty product , resulting in eventuaĺ carbon deposits on the piston dome & rings . Decarbonizing tear downs were routine . Todays premium fd class synthetic oiĺs do a much better job , even in such extreme service applications .

 

[Hermio]

As I have said ten other times in hydrodynamic lubrication film strength is basically the same thing as viscosity.

You do realise I work with fractonation every single day?
I have probably forgot more than you know is it pertains to petroleum refining, lubricants, etc.

You keep repeating a false claim. that viscosity equates to film strength. That is an egregiously wrong technical error. Repeating your claim does not make it so. And working with fractionation columns you should know by now that it is not possible to get a uniform molecular weight from them. One can only approach uniformity as the number of trays approach infinity.

 

[Hermio]

You can't apply the theory...

I make a living applying theory. And I charge $225 per hour for doing so.

 

[Hermio]

It's a bit useful to know how a motor works when judging the usefulness of certain tests, no?
I think most of us can tell your pretty clueless.

That does not fix your illogical claim.

 

[lone wolf]

I make a living applying theory. And I charge $225 per hour for doing so.

Then you might be doing a lot of it here for free.

 

[Hermio]

Then you might be doing a lot of it here for free.

I haven't thought of it that way. I had hoped to find some good advice on the original topics, but all I got was a lot of opinion. The overall topic is outside my field except for the general; principles of fluid dynamics. I did not plan to get into a virtual fight, but I felt compelled to correct some scientific errors and baseless criticism of certain companies and individual You-tubers. By the way, apparently people have been arguing about the applicability of the 4-ball and Timken tests for a long time, as I found out recently doing some searching. It seems unlikely to be resolved here!

4 ball or Timken test | Bob Is The Oil Guy



Amsoil and their tests | Bob Is The Oil Guy

 

[farfromiowa]

You may not like my approach, but when I talk about something A. It has a factual basis and B. I have experience in and understand what's going on.
The problem IMO is that people are use to being treated with kid gloves when they are stupid. I refuse to do this within forum limits.
That and I am not here to be buddies per se. This forum use to be and ahoukd be a repository of knowledge. You let the morons slide and it clogs up with garbage and bad information.

"People are used to being treated with kid gloves when they are stupid"
That is the quote of the day. Thanks

 

[Hermio]

"People are used to being treated with kid gloves when they are stupid"
That is the quote of the day. Thanks

Bwalker does not seem to know the difference between stupid and ignorant. I did not call him stupid, but he is clearly ignorant about fluid dynamics, what viscosity actually is, the principles of how a fractionation tower works vs how molecules are synthesized and what constitutes the scientific method. Yes, I am sure he has lots of relevant experience, but there are holes in his conceptual understanding of the subject matter. If you want another quote of the day, I remember one I liked: "Some people make the same mistakes for years, and call it experience."

 

[bwalker]

Bwalker does not seem to know the difference between stupid and ignorant. I did not call him stupid, but he is clearly ignorant about fluid dynamics, what viscosity actually is, the principles of how a fractionation tower works vs how molecules are synthesized and what constitutes the scientific method. Yes, I am sure he has lots of relevant experience, but there are holes in his conceptual understanding of the subject matter. If you want another quote of the day, I remember one I liked: "Some people make the same mistakes for years, and call it experience."

My description of viscosity within hydrodynamic conditions is spot on. That you don't know this is telling.
Pehaps you need to brush up on your fluid dynamics some more.
I can also assure you I have more book traning and practical training on fractionation towers than you, both in theory and practice.I am currently working on a training manual for a unit containing a fractionator column. I am a SME. I have crawled through one, I have been a plant operator in a unit with one and I have been the control operator of one. I literally deal with them every day. So nice try jack wagon.
You do realise that the fractionator is but one process a base oil passes through out of a half dozen or more?

 

[farfromiowa]

Bwalker does not seem to know the difference between stupid and ignorant. I did not call him stupid, but he is clearly ignorant about fluid dynamics, what viscosity actually is, the principles of how a fractionation tower works vs how molecules are synthesized and what constitutes the scientific method. Yes, I am sure he has lots of relevant experience, but there are holes in his conceptual understanding of the subject matter. If you want another quote of the day, I remember one I liked: "Some people make the same mistakes for years, and call it experience."

It seems that BWalker is living in your head rent free. Maybe you should let it go.

 

[Hermio]

It seems that BWalker is living in your head rent free. Maybe you should let it go.

Well, tomorrow is my 50th wedding anniversary. We have a celebration planned. I will try to forget about him for at least 1 day.

 

[Hermio]

And I used stupid for a reason... might have been thinking of someone in particular. Although that individual is ignorant as well.

No such thing as a stupid engineer or a Mensa member (which I am). Brush up on your vocabulary.

 

[Hermio]

My description of viscosity within hydrodynamic conditions is spot on. That you don't know this is telling.
Pehaps you need to brush up on your fluid dynamics some more.
I can also assure you I have more book traning and practical training on fractionation towers than you, both in theory and practice.I am currently working on a training manual for a unit containing a fractionator column. I am a SME. I have crawled through one, I have been a plant operator in a unit with one and I have been the control operator of one. I literally deal with them every day. So nice try jack wagon.
You do realise that the fractionator is but one process a base oil passes through out of a half dozen or more?

No matter how many times you repeat the nonsense that viscosity = film strength, you will still be wrong. I already know you are not an engineer. I suspect you are a technician or a mechanic. Do you have any college degree? I am not denigrating you by asking these questions, as we need technicians and mechanics just as much as we need engineers. But without a formal engineering education, it is doubtful you would have the theoretical understanding of the mass transfer, equilibrium processes and stage efficiency that go into the design and operation of a fractionation process. Have a nice weekend.

 

[Hermio]

I have a BS and am only a few credits away from a BA as well. Not a mechanic and never have been.
What I said is accurate and you would know this if you understood lubrication.
I have forgot more than you know about fractionating... both in theory and practice.
The world and this board will luck out if you get hit by a truck this weekend.

A BS in what? It seems to me you BS a lot. Can you describe what a theoretical stage is?

 

[Hermio]

Plenty of stupid engineers...

Nope. It is virtually impossible to earn an engineering degree with an IQ below 120.