Bore cut felling?

[Gypo Logger]

Nice pictures Slam. I like those low stumps.

Anyone who has taken the plunge must have experienced KB, even when the bar was straight into the tree. The saw comes straight back and if your standing directly behind the saw the rear handle hits the right thigh and a huge bruise results.
This kind of KB I think is caused by a chain that may be too loose and too low chain speed and maybe not holding the saw tight enough.

I talked to a retired WCF yesterday and we discussed the habitual use of plunge.
He just laughed and never heard of it except leaners. Can you imagine plunging every tree with an 090, which is the saw he used on the coast.
Harry still has the 090 BTW.

John

 

[Greystoke]

Boring...

I prefer the "half humboldt" LOL!

Seriously though opposite ends of the country we do things different...so be it. The coos bay and borin with a backstrap... I have used both quite a bit. When I bore and strap I generally cut 1/3 or better face, just depends on how heavy the tree is leanin, and it is generally a humboldt, cuz most the trees I have fell you want the butt to hit the ground first, otherwise, I have used a saginaw, or conventional undercut. One thing that I used to do quite a bit when I did not want to pull wood from the butt, (unless I wanted to rely on hopped up chainsaw power and a laser sharp chain to stay with it and cut the holding wood off as she went over) especially with high dollar wood that was real stringy (spruce, yellow cedar, red fir...) I would bore in from the undercut side and bore as much heartwood as I could get away with depending on how much side lean the tree had and how far around I needed to pull it as most of my career was on steep sidehills. Most times I would bore out heartwood unless I had other things that I was trying to do...like jacking or wedging against a heavy back lean...I would not cut up the holding wood, or bore out the heart until the tree was stood up as I was maximizing my holding wood. You end up with a nice butt log that if any wood was pulled it is generally in the sapwood that gets milled off anyway. Once again...only in certain situations, as sometimes there is nothing you can do but leave a big old sword of a stump shot...at least in my experience.

Here is an example of when and how I would bore the heart out. These trees leaned hard down a nasty bluff (head lean) and although it was a given that I would bore the heart out of these, most times I did it anyway, just because I wanted nice clean butt logs.

Sitka Spruce with heart bored out, humboldt face with a snipe.

Boring heartwood on a Hemlock, once again humboldt with a snipe:

High dollar Yellow Cedar log that was bored. Notice the wood pull out of the sapwood on the right side...tree had a downhill lean and I needed to pull it sidehill, so I had to leave that wood and not cut it off as it was going over, otherwise it would not be there.

Hopefully this post was not too boring for anyone

 

[coastalfaller]

I prefer the "half humboldt" LOL!

Seriously though opposite ends of the country we do things different...so be it. The coos bay and borin with a backstrap... I have used both quite a bit. When I bore and strap I generally cut 1/3 or better face, just depends on how heavy the tree is leanin, and it is generally a humboldt, cuz most the trees I have fell you want the butt to hit the ground first, otherwise, I have used a saginaw, or conventional undercut. One thing that I used to do quite a bit when I did not want to pull wood from the butt, (unless I wanted to rely on hopped up chainsaw power and a laser sharp chain to stay with it and cut the holding wood off as she went over) especially with high dollar wood that was real stringy (spruce, yellow cedar, red fir...) I would bore in from the undercut side and bore as much heartwood as I could get away with depending on how much side lean the tree had and how far around I needed to pull it as most of my career was on steep sidehills. Most times I would bore out heartwood unless I had other things that I was trying to do...like jacking or wedging against a heavy back lean...I would not cut up the holding wood, or bore out the heart until the tree was stood up as I was maximizing my holding wood. You end up with a nice butt log that if any wood was pulled it is generally in the sapwood that gets milled off anyway. Once again...only in certain situations, as sometimes there is nothing you can do but leave a big old sword of a stump shot...at least in my experience.

Here is an example of when and how I would bore the heart out. These trees leaned hard down a nasty bluff (head lean) and although it was a given that I would bore the heart out of these, most times I did it anyway, just because I wanted nice clean butt logs.

Sitka Spruce with heart bored out, humboldt face with a snipe.

Boring heartwood on a Hemlock, once again humboldt with a snipe:

High dollar Yellow Cedar log that was bored. Notice the wood pull out of the sapwood on the right side...tree had a downhill lean and I needed to pull it sidehill, so I had to leave that wood and not cut it off as it was going over, otherwise it would not be there.

Hopefully this post was not too boring for anyone

I like the half humboldt too! lol! Funny how terminology and technique vary from region to region. We use all the techniques you described, just different names. For instance, the humboldt with a snipe, we call it a swanson here. Don't ask me why, not sure of the history!

 

[coastalfaller]

I prefer the "half humboldt" LOL!

Seriously though opposite ends of the country we do things different...so be it. The coos bay and borin with a backstrap... I have used both quite a bit. When I bore and strap I generally cut 1/3 or better face, just depends on how heavy the tree is leanin, and it is generally a humboldt, cuz most the trees I have fell you want the butt to hit the ground first, otherwise, I have used a saginaw, or conventional undercut. One thing that I used to do quite a bit when I did not want to pull wood from the butt, (unless I wanted to rely on hopped up chainsaw power and a laser sharp chain to stay with it and cut the holding wood off as she went over) especially with high dollar wood that was real stringy (spruce, yellow cedar, red fir...) I would bore in from the undercut side and bore as much heartwood as I could get away with depending on how much side lean the tree had and how far around I needed to pull it as most of my career was on steep sidehills. Most times I would bore out heartwood unless I had other things that I was trying to do...like jacking or wedging against a heavy back lean...I would not cut up the holding wood, or bore out the heart until the tree was stood up as I was maximizing my holding wood. You end up with a nice butt log that if any wood was pulled it is generally in the sapwood that gets milled off anyway. Once again...only in certain situations, as sometimes there is nothing you can do but leave a big old sword of a stump shot...at least in my experience.

Here is an example of when and how I would bore the heart out. These trees leaned hard down a nasty bluff (head lean) and although it was a given that I would bore the heart out of these, most times I did it anyway, just because I wanted nice clean butt logs.

Sitka Spruce with heart bored out, humboldt face with a snipe.

Boring heartwood on a Hemlock, once again humboldt with a snipe:

High dollar Yellow Cedar log that was bored. Notice the wood pull out of the sapwood on the right side...tree had a downhill lean and I needed to pull it sidehill, so I had to leave that wood and not cut it off as it was going over, otherwise it would not be there.

Hopefully this post was not too boring for anyone

Your ground and timber type look vaguely familiar too! lol!

 

[Greystoke]

I like the half humboldt too! lol! Funny how terminology and technique vary from region to region. We use all the techniques you described, just different names. For instance, the humboldt with a snipe, we call it a swanson here. Don't ask me why, not sure of the history!

Yeah, as much trampin around as I did...there was always different terminology. Never heard the swanson one...less syllables...i'm in! It was funny when I would show up in a region to cut timber and start talkin to a local faller with my tramp lingo. When I first started here in Montany they call timber fallers here "sawyers", and when I turned 18 and headed for the coast and called them sawyers there, they tended to frown at me a lot! Since most of my career was spent on the Coast, I tend to frown now too at being called a "sawyer" Take care pard!

 

[Greystoke]

Your ground and timber type look vaguely familiar too! lol!

North Prince of Wales Island Alaska...probably not too far from ya!

 

[RandyMac]

The term sawyer seems old school, it was used on the coast as a more proper name, we called ourselves fallers or choppers, depending on what you were cutting. The term "tree cutter" is better left for farmers.

 

[coastalfaller]

Yeah, as much trampin around as I did...there was always different terminology. Never heard the swanson one...less syllables...i'm in! It was funny when I would show up in a region to cut timber and start talkin to a local faller with my tramp lingo. When I first started here in Montany they call timber fallers here "sawyers", and when I turned 18 and headed for the coast and called them sawyers there, they tended to frown at me a lot! Since most of my career was spent on the Coast, I tend to frown now too at being called a "sawyer" Take care pard!

I hear ya! Take care too and stay warm!

 

[coastalfaller]

North Prince of Wales Island Alaska...probably not too far from ya!

Not far at all!

 

[coastalfaller]

The term sawyer seems old school, it was used on the coast as a more proper name, we called ourselves fallers or choppers, depending on what you were cutting. The term "tree cutter" is better left for farmers.

 

[Greystoke]

The term sawyer seems old school, it was used on the coast as a more proper name, we called ourselves fallers or choppers, depending on what you were cutting. The term "tree cutter" is better left for farmers.

Yeah, I remember when I showed up in Humboldt county in 99...I was there for about four years and I never could get used to people calling me a chopper...I had never heard that one before or since I left there...most regions I worked we were Timber Fallers.

 

[madhatte]

Been hearing the generic term "cutter" around here lately from the small family outfits contracting on our ownership. Don't know if that's widespread or not.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I prefer the "half humboldt" LOL!

Seriously though opposite ends of the country we do things different...so be it. The coos bay and borin with a backstrap... I have used both quite a bit. When I bore and strap I generally cut 1/3 or better face, just depends on how heavy the tree is leanin, and it is generally a humboldt, cuz most the trees I have fell you want the butt to hit the ground first, otherwise, I have used a saginaw, or conventional undercut. One thing that I used to do quite a bit when I did not want to pull wood from the butt, (unless I wanted to rely on hopped up chainsaw power and a laser sharp chain to stay with it and cut the holding wood off as she went over) especially with high dollar wood that was real stringy (spruce, yellow cedar, red fir...) I would bore in from the undercut side and bore as much heartwood as I could get away with depending on how much side lean the tree had and how far around I needed to pull it as most of my career was on steep sidehills. Most times I would bore out heartwood unless I had other things that I was trying to do...like jacking or wedging against a heavy back lean...I would not cut up the holding wood, or bore out the heart until the tree was stood up as I was maximizing my holding wood. You end up with a nice butt log that if any wood was pulled it is generally in the sapwood that gets milled off anyway. Once again...only in certain situations, as sometimes there is nothing you can do but leave a big old sword of a stump shot...at least in my experience.

Here is an example of when and how I would bore the heart out. These trees leaned hard down a nasty bluff (head lean) and although it was a given that I would bore the heart out of these, most times I did it anyway, just because I wanted nice clean butt logs.

Sitka Spruce with heart bored out, humboldt face with a snipe.



Boring heartwood on a Hemlock, once again humboldt with a snipe:



High dollar Yellow Cedar log that was bored. Notice the wood pull out of the sapwood on the right side...tree had a downhill lean and I needed to pull it sidehill, so I had to leave that wood and not cut it off as it was going over, otherwise it would not be there.


Hopefully this post was not too boring for anyone

Cool pics, big wood, steep ground.
I like the way you took the undercut out in two pieces. Was the stem to the right an Alder or BL Maple?
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Topper, chopper, woodrat, tree ape, woodtick, sawyer, whatever jacks your lumber. Lol

 

[RandyMac]

Chopper is a Redwood thing, going back to when the first Scotsman put steel to a tree so big, it seemed like an endless nightmare.
When I think of a sawyer, I see a headrig. Ray called me, among other things, his second sawyer. In the forestry we dropped the yer from sawyer, sometimes as many as eight crewmen had a chainsaw designation. We all had our tools assigned to us, whatever it was, it was your's until you left.

 

[hammerlogging]

Been hearing the generic term "cutter" around here lately from the small family outfits contracting on our ownership. Don't know if that's widespread or not.

There are lots of "cutters" in Appalachia. And timbercutters.

Then again, small family outfits dominate the region.

 

[bitzer]

Chopper is a Redwood thing, going back to when the first Scotsman put steel to a tree so big, it seemed like an endless nightmare.
When I think of a sawyer, I see a headrig. Ray called me, among other things, his second sawyer. In the forestry we dropped the yer from sawyer, sometimes as many as eight crewmen had a chainsaw designation. We all had our tools assigned to us, whatever it was, it was your's until you left.

According to mid to late 1800s lingo out of the pinery (MN, WI, MI):

Choppers were the timber fallers.

Sawyers ("buckers") were buckin up the logs.

Swampers were guys who limbed and cleared brush for the teamsters

Teamsters skidded the logs out.

This started before raker teeth on saws and only axes were used for felling.

Heres a list of monthly pay rates as such:

1889-90

Choppers- $26-$28
Sawyers - $22-$24
Second Sawyer- $20-$22
Swamper- $15-$20
Four horse teamster- $32-$35
Two horse teamster- $24-$28
Oxen Teamster- $26-$28
Blacksmiths and cooks made the most in camp $40-$45

Taken from "Theres Daylight in the Swamps." Some damn good old pics in here wish I had a scanner.

Now that I've de-railed the #### out of this thread I might as well keep going.

There is really only one type of bore cut that I like, but man can it get you into trouble.

 

[stihl 440]

There are lots of "cutters" in Appalachia. And timbercutters.

Then again, small family outfits dominate the region.

Yup ill second that.....ya hear cutter alot here.....

 

[sawinredneck]

Nice pictures Slam. I like those low stumps.

Anyone who has taken the plunge must have experienced KB, even when the bar was straight into the tree. The saw comes straight back and if your standing directly behind the saw the rear handle hits the right thigh and a huge bruise results.
This kind of KB I think is caused by a chain that may be too loose and too low chain speed and maybe not holding the saw tight enough.

I talked to a retired WCF yesterday and we discussed the habitual use of plunge.
He just laughed and never heard of it except leaners. Can you imagine plunging every tree with an 090, which is the saw he used on the coast.
Harry still has the 090 BTW.

John

I only bore cut when I have to, John, even to the point where I had an Oak barberchair on me once! Standing dead, 36" DBH with a 32" bar, winds were semi calm, but in my favor for falling. As I made the back cut the wind changed and picked up. Barberchaired 15' up the stem! Bad deal, but I walked away.
I've experienced what I call "push back" in bore cuts, but not kick back. It hurts the hell out of the gut, but it's not like kick back for sure! I akin it to following my gunning sights and trying to over correct while setting up the hinge. At the "moment" with a good leaner, it's easy to forget you have time to go back and fix the hinge, then make the back cut. But not doing it anymore than I have to, it's an art I am working on.
This cut is a fine line, it's not for everyone, it's not for every tree, as GOL would have you believe, but it sure has it's place in the tool box.

 

[056kid]

Bore cuts bore cuts bore cuts.

HOW did the misery whippers EVER get ANY timber on the ground??????

H O W? ? ? ? ?