Bowline mindblock

[d kraus]

Everyone learns in there own way. I first learned it in the boyscouts, but forgot it soon after. One day when I was in high school my dad had me working as his ground man on a Saturday. He sent his saw down to be refueled, I could not remember how to tie the dam thing to send his saw back to him. He could not have his saw tied with anything but a bowline. So he came all the way down, cursing all the way. I think that was the last time I forgot how to tie it.

 

[DadF]

Seems like you never forget a lesson when dad gets mad!! Right Danf?!?!?
D Kraus-were you working for a paycheck? Some of the best lessons learned are the free ones!?!?
I kind of agree that there are just three, no five knots that should be common to all ground people - bowline, half hitch, clove hitch, figure of eight and common prusick. If all ground people knew how to tie those knots it would be a safer work environment for all. I say that because if you are the only climber at the site who is able to check your rigging and the ground people don't know or understand the knots then that extra safty factor just went in the chipper. Just one of those things I've learned from the little recreational climbing I've done everyone-checks everyone else.
I think we can all agree that a good ground person can make or break a good working day. Part of that making the day should be the ability of the ground person to cover the the climbers butt and vice versa.

 

[dbeck]

In my opinion, groundie is close enough to greenhorn or rookie. You said it yourself, your groundies are climbers in training. That is someone who is starting out (Iassume) and is eager to learn (most of the time). If I was starting out and a climber called down "groundie, go get me a chainsaw!", or whatever, I might feel disrespected. How would the climber feel if a groundie called up to him to climb out to that piece of deadwood instead of use a polesaw? MAybe he would feel disrepsected also?...

 

[dbeck]

never mandated anything rocky...I agree there's nothing more to add.
I think it's great you and your ground crew get along so good, teamwork and frienship go a long way.
Also, nothing PC about it, that's just a thought I had...don't blow things out of proportion people!

 

[Stumper]

I call my ground crew a lot of things (remember I work alone ). Frankly I don't really see a problem with "groundie" in and of itself. I understand perfectly why Brian is accusing us of PC poopoo. Most hard working industries have names for various crewmembers. They are only disparaging if they are intended that way-if everyone respects one another then they are just designations. Drilling operations have roughnecks and tool-pushers etc. Welders have 'swampers'.Tree operations have Monkeys er... I mean Squirrels and groundies.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

If I were to say something about Paul, Matt or Sarah you would have no clue who I was talking about. If I said "my groundie/s" you would know what I was talking about right away. I use it as a job description or casual title.

I'm still anxious to hear of alternatives.

Tom

 

[murphy4trees]

Ground person or ground man.... no biggie deal.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Brush Tech?

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
geez, get off yer high horse about 'respect'. On the jobsite respect is earned, not mandated by PC speech. You guys are frigging incredible.

We think so alike it is scary.

There is a difference between the guy who keeps your line clear, lowers big pieces of wood without shaking or flinging you, unties the line and sends it back up for the next chunk to be lowered and a brush pilot.

I have one guy who is the first of those 2 - we don't speak the same language, but we are on the same page. I am good at what I do but he puts the shine on the whole operation. I'm on the stage, but it is the guy behind the scenes that makes the magic happen. - I call that guy my right hand man on the jobsite.

Other idiot brush pilots that can't grasp the basics of common sense don't deserve the term groundie. I'm thinking 3-4 letter words.

One idiot kept walking into my DZ on a pruning job causing me to pace my cuts on his actions. That lasted a while until I viewed him as a target and not an obstacle.

I respect those that deserve it on the job site. You have to here with the hispanic crews, they have a pecking order that is established fast. There is no automatic respect for the boss and they can be absolutely cruel to subordinates. I work with a small group and we know eachother's limits when it comes to respect - some guys don't care what you call them as long as you pay them, others see it as a threat to their manhood if you call them ground boy. (guess who gets called ground boy)

The guys I work with have limited if any english skills so learning knots is by example.

I have found the trick to teaching help knots is finding help that gives a chit about learning anything.

 

[dbeck]

I'm sure guys can get in the way down there. We try to pace everything while working...if I wait for the guys to drag off some limbs from the DZ it can make things faster in the long run because they don't have to rassle w/ the brush later.
Nobody ever becomes a target.

 

[TREETX]

dbeck - I agree 100% with what you just said

Communication and rythm makes it work though.

Puff, puff, pass - don't mess up the rotation.

 

[jblimbwalker]

I've showed guys the slippery sheet bend and other quick/easy release knots to use when attaching lowering line to my climb line, yet when I pull up the rope there is a massive knot that the guy just invented. I've suggested keeping a short section of rope around the house and knot practicing at lunch to guys and they think that's funny. They can't fathom the idea of actually learning something new while not on the clock.

 

[dbeck]

That's what I do when I learn a new knot. No sense practicing on the job.
jblimbwalker-try the quick hitch (in the tree climber's companion) for attaching two lines. easy to to and untie in the tree. I have managed to get everybody I work w/ to use it...give it a try!

 

[jamie]

newbiw

i have recently started, after graduating in countryside management with an honours degree i found no work, paid myway through another qualification (RFS certificate in arboriculture, still awaiting the results) nad got myself the NPTC basic chainsaw and basic treeclimbing, why to get some training, to make me more employable, and to make sure that i at least know the basics, as my employer said you will slow us down but you will learn, and learn i have. i dont think groundie is a detremental term, its an abreviation....im only just begining to get properly accepted into my squad after 3months working with them day in day out....hopefully they trust me......so far i have only been up one tree only to put a line on to help pull it over but im learning on the ground first.

as for bowlines on my climbing course, i wasnt alowed to touch a rope until i could tie a climbing system (bowline, prusik and figure of 8) behind my back, why, to make sure i could in a stressful situation, much like the firefighter one mentioned above.

cheers

jamie

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by dbeck
...don't blow things out of proportion people!

Brian will do that every chance he gets

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Someone should find that old Sven and Ole joke.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The abreiviated version.

Sven was wondering why Ole got the job at tha airport.

The Personel Director told him that hsi brother was hired ad a brush pilot.

he responds, well that's crazy, i do all the cutting and he's just the pile-it!

 

[DadF]

JPS- I know it's not your joke but BOOOOOOOH!!!!!

 

[Mattman]

I have a new guy working for me who has gone through Navy Seal school, and can't tie a single knot. What gives?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Mattman
I have a new guy working for me who has gone through Navy Seal school, and can't tie a single knot. What gives?

Hey, I spent 4 yrs on an aircraft carrier and I never had to learn any knots!