Bowline mindblock

[NeTree]

"magnus" I've heard of. The others...

xander, no sweat bro, it's all fun.

 

[husky runner]

bowline mind block

Hi butch I guess I've got another thing going for me as an amateur I can tie a bowline knot . I really feel for the poor residents in hurricane hit florida , I hear theres tons of just cutting and stacking palm work there, if it weren't for the need to make a paycheck and a 22 hr drive each way I'd be there in a minute, also i here its getting pretty tough there ,bound to be lots of violence soon if those poor people dont get the help they need, if we can go rebuild iraq what about our own country!!!

 

[husky runner]

bowline mindblock

Sorry my last post was to be a pm , anywho id have 20 if i were tieing that rope.

 

[NeTree]

Two words...
FOREIGN AID.

We'll leave the reat for another thread.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by wiley_p
Maybe the mistake that we often make is looking at the ground position only as a stepping stone to the grand world of climbing instead of focusing on the fact that a skilled groundman is every bit as valuable as a climber.

You speaketh a great truth.

 

[knudeNoggin]

boneheads at every level

Prudence thrives on circumspection
as oft', the patient mind, reflective,
reveals ideals of some perfection
as mere illusions of perspective.
--Anon., II

Here's a picture I posted a while back showing the three second bowline.
http://www.arboristsite.com/attach/2065.jpg

Note that the starting orientation is ambiguous, so it's hard to tell what's which!

If you teach this method, I think it's easier to learn. Instead of making the loop,
worrying about which way to make it then putting the tail through, you simply make a
"T" and twist your wrist, to form the hole and send the rabbit through.

Indeed this & similar quick-tying methods ensure that the rabbit's going
in the right direction. But one should couple such methods with careful
articulation of how the knot works--of how the loop
nips & holds the end bight, and how to easily untie it.

his rabbit would run around the tree the wrong way. From What I understand
this creates a bowline variation (Dutch or cowboy bowline) that is strength
compromised.
-----------
strength isn't affected but security. i was taught (and have read);
that on shipping docks, when using the bowline; if the end (or toggle)
rubs briskly against something, it can invert the knot, and the load
falls, many times killing workers below.

But all of you can do more than read, right? --i.p., you all have ropes
and knowledge of how to tie these knots (of which this extended lamentation
re knot knowledge pays hommage to)?! SO, can YOU generate this mythical
failure mode? --I can't. Indeed, the supposed failure comes exactly
in the way that some folks are recommending TYING the very knot!
(the slip-knot method) Oh, I can capsize the Bwl, and see the knot
then become an overhand noose and slide against the object--but not
to the point of what I'd call a failure. Release the end, and what
happens should be the retying of the Bwl, right? As in ...

i make the bowline with the slipknot method; using that method,
it is a lot easier to see how the knot could invert and release.

I'm with you up to the "invert" part; I don't see then how it can
"release", since under the supposed condition the original SPart
is secured to whatever was holding the load, and the end is now
secured by snagging to something. I don't see the original SPart
coming undone (it's anchored to a winch or whatever), so release
the end from the snag and ... viola, one is now tying the Bwl
via the "slip-knot" method--and presumably with a long enough
tail.
What am I missing?!

Now, what I CAN see happening is that the EYE of the Bwl gets
snagged (and I can morEasily see an open eye snagging than a
loosEnd of rope!), and then the Bwl is "ring-loaded"--such that
the knot is effectively a bend: a "Lapp Bend", if tied the
"wrong" way (Bwl end outside!), or a mis-tied Lapp bend if
the reg. Bwl was the knot. The latter can readily spill.
A Dbl.Bwl (with either rabbit ) should preclude spilling
on ring-loading; various securings of the tail--of which the
so-called Yosemite Tie-Off seems most dubious (yep!)--will
also preclude failure on ring-loading.

groundies learn a half hitch, girth hitch, truckers
hitch, clove hitch, right angle, square knot, bowline, bowline on a bight, butterfly knot,
cow hitch, timber hitch, becketts bend (sheet bend) and prussic. I won't give them a
raise until they learn these knots. The shortest time has been two weeks, the longest is
13 months and counting .

Climbers need to know these knots plus swabish, distel, VT, bowline with a yosemite tie
off, zeppElin [Rosendahl's] bend, running bowline (why is this more difficult than a reqular bowline?),
figure 8, running 8 and double fishermans knot.
----------------------
i'd extend JP's just make a list of half hitches, to an olde,
secure standard a round turn and 2 half hitches? The strength would depend on what
you were hitching to, any uneasiness about security

I'd extend it to give a knot-securing complement: the slip-knot stopper
(or the Overhand stopper--the Slip-knot is handy when the knotted end is long,
and one prefers to tie the knot in the bight).
Some of those above knots can be made secure by tying a stopper knot in the end,
such as for the Clove, Cow, & Timber hitches.

As for "becketts bend", that's "becket bend" (a becket being a generally u-shaped thing, such as an eye splice).
Also, prefer the Dble of each--which helps smooth over the issue
of whether to tie the same-side vs. opp.-side version of the Sheet bend.

--knudeNoggin

 

[OutOnaLimb]

I learned to tie the bowline and a few other knots when I was in the Ranger indocterination program when I was a weeee private in the army. They taught us the bowline and that night we had to have all are gear tied down with parachute cord using a bowline and square not. If you f*cked it up the first time you got a warning, If you f*cked it up the second time your whole squad was doing push ups in the gravel for about 30 minutes. The fact that one guy in the squad screwing up that know made sure every one knew it and was spot checking one another. After that I was tieing down night vision goggles and untying them in the dark with nary a problem.

Kenn

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Oh, and for the record, I have made my groundies do push ups when they f*cked something up. And to prove that I lead by example, I will do push ups for them if I F*ck somthing up. (Which is rare to never)

Kenn

 

[xander9727]

Dude,
That was a segment of your life.
Let it go.
Move on brother.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hahahahaaa!!

Yea, that wouldn't fly with the groundies around here!

 

[jkrueger]

Originally posted by OutOnaLimb
Oh, and for the record, I have made my groundies do push ups when they f*cked something up. And to prove that I lead by example, I will do push ups for them if I F*ck somthing up. (Which is rare to never)

Kenn

Whis I had a ground 'person'. Tiered of doing it all alone and figuring out ways to get past the speed and one man band approach.

Sigh,
Jack

 

[arboromega]

i think the problem is that most ground men dont care. they dont see this as a career for themselves and dont have motivation to learn. in my experience only the groundies who have wanted to climb bothered to learn the ropes.

 

[NeTree]

I learned how to tie one when I was five... what's the big f-ing deal? It's as easy as tying laces.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I agree, but I didn't learn it until I was 30!!!

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Dude, you have serious issuses.
And if some groundman actually did "get down and give you 20" instead of walking off the job, just at the mere suggestion, he too has issues.
Seek help.

I have lots of issues. but I have serious issues when some one runs a pitch fork through the chipper, cuts a climb line in half with a saw, or looses equipment. I run my show like I ran my fire team. If they dont like it. they can go wash cars or hang out at the Lazy Ready office all day. Fortuneatly right now its just me and my partner who is ex Marine. We both beat our face at least once every other week.

Behold the power of negative reinforcement.

Kenn

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
I agree, but I didn't learn it until I was 30!!!

Bowline or laces?

 

[NeTree]

Well put, Mike; I understand your point...

Keep in mind though, it's hard to "de-program" back to the way we used to be. It takes time and deliberate practice.

 

[xander9727]

Amen to that brother. I would love to make my guys get wet and sandy when they screw up but.........I wouldn't have them as employees for long. The military mentality definately has it's place but it requires the military discipline and training that procedes it. Unfortunately civilians just don't "get it". I don't like it, but I have to accept it if I'm going to be successful in business.

 

[NeTree]

LOL It took me a year to tell "normal" time and dates again.

 

[glens]

Gotta love those analog clocks which only make one spin of the hour hand in a day.