Once again, a 24 hour fillup with the nastiest weather of the season. I went from 9:00PM on Saturday 12/20 to 9:30PM on Sunday 12/21. During that span we had temperatures in the single digits, 35-45MPH winds, and even a blizzard warning.
Burn times in various OWB's
- Thread starter ngzcaz
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bowtechmadman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Pipe Welder sounds like you have a bum OWB or your losing a great amount of heat somewhere. 12 hrs w/ 5 or 6 chunks of ash (16" around and about 24" long) easily w/ mine.
Are your PEX water lines insulated?
Are your PEX water lines insulated?
modn
ArboristSite Operative
This is my 4th night with my boiler (Cozeburn 250) 2000 sqft, 95' away, temp at 73 degrees. I check it every 12 hours and today was the 1st day I had just a little bit of wood left with very hot coals. This was due to the fact that I have been dropping back on the amount of wood I put into it when I fill it (down to 3 12"-14" rounds of maple/birch/pine). I'm content in loading it every 12 hours so I have no idea how far I could take it but I think I'm getting a handle on it.
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rx7145
ArboristSite Guru
I does sound like you are losing a lot of heat. Can you tell us more about your house and your OWB install.
pipe welder
ArboristSite Lurker
To tell you the truth I'm tired of complaining about the stupid thing myself. The fact remains it has to be the boiler. The house does not heat that hard, one old wood stove inside does the job easily. The rest of the system works just fine with a 164000 btu propane boiler, or the old inside wood boiler I bought off a local farmer for 200 bucks. My only complaint with it was short burn times which means middle of the night loadings. The stove is only 10 ft from the house and I have no under ground pipe, also have no pex I'm a pipe fitter so I use real pipe and yes it is insulated. Nothing has changed with the house since the OWB install. It seems like it struggles just to heat itself even when there is very little load on it. I ran the inside stove all day yesterday so the OWB had very little heat load and I still used a whole load of wood just to get the temp back up. Had to put more wood in about 4:00 yesterday evening to keep the fire going and then I loaded Ii again at 10:00 before bed. I guess what I'm saying is it burns a ton of wood even if it has no heating load. This OWB is the only thing that has changed in my heating system so it has to be the culprit.
AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sounds as though something is amiss with your setup "pipewelder".
They for sure eat alot of wood but keeping up with heat demands usually is easy as long as a fire is going.
I'm scratchin my head a bit here. White oak is absolutely GREAT stuff.
You should at least get an overnight burn
What water temp are you shootin for? When I experimented with turning mine up to 170 degrees my wood consumption doubled if not more and didn't do me any better than the 130 I usually run. Just hotter heat thru the registers.
They for sure eat alot of wood but keeping up with heat demands usually is easy as long as a fire is going.
I'm scratchin my head a bit here. White oak is absolutely GREAT stuff.
You should at least get an overnight burn
What water temp are you shootin for? When I experimented with turning mine up to 170 degrees my wood consumption doubled if not more and didn't do me any better than the 130 I usually run. Just hotter heat thru the registers.
coostv
ArboristSite Operative
I suppose my usages and loading times mirror some of the posts I read.
I load mine twice a day. I usually load it first thing in the morning (between 6 and 8) with around 4-5 pieces of split 24" long pieces of various dimensions and do the same around 6PM.
My house is 1900-2000 sq ft and 10 years old insulated very well. I also heat a 960 sq ft shop which is insulated pretty well with r13 in the walls and around r25 in the ceiling. I only run the heat in the shop when I am in it (which lately has been a lot since I lost my job). I painted a truck the other day and had to load it a third time on my way into the house (my spray booth/third stall is ducted to the furnace plenum with the extraction fan pulling heat in).
I think many things make differences in how much wood we use. Boiler location, is it in the wind or sheltered? Boiler construction (a big one IMHO) Pex insulation and depth buried. Temp the house or shop is kept at. Setback thermostat or none (after all, who cares about heat when no one is around).
I load mine twice a day. I usually load it first thing in the morning (between 6 and 8) with around 4-5 pieces of split 24" long pieces of various dimensions and do the same around 6PM.
My house is 1900-2000 sq ft and 10 years old insulated very well. I also heat a 960 sq ft shop which is insulated pretty well with r13 in the walls and around r25 in the ceiling. I only run the heat in the shop when I am in it (which lately has been a lot since I lost my job). I painted a truck the other day and had to load it a third time on my way into the house (my spray booth/third stall is ducted to the furnace plenum with the extraction fan pulling heat in).
I think many things make differences in how much wood we use. Boiler location, is it in the wind or sheltered? Boiler construction (a big one IMHO) Pex insulation and depth buried. Temp the house or shop is kept at. Setback thermostat or none (after all, who cares about heat when no one is around).
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
12 hr burn times sound about right heating 2,000 sq ft and occasionally another 960 sq ft. I'd be well satisfied in your shoes. I'm heating about 1500 sq ft w/ the same 12 hr burn times ( except when it was in the single digits, threw a piece or 2 in after 6 to 8 hrs until the big fill at night. ) As you and many others probably have read this is on junk pine. New Years marks the start of the goo stuff....
Are you running your shop pump 24/7 or do you have anti-freeze in it ? I'd like to do the same thing but hesitated running it out until it was too late this year.
I'll have a slightly smaller area ( 768 sq ft ) but only insulation ( R-19 ) in the ceiling, nothing but concrete block for the rest. An old oil furnace from a mobile home ( about 50,000 btu ) gets it to about 60 degrees in cold weather.
:greenchainsaw:
Are you running your shop pump 24/7 or do you have anti-freeze in it ? I'd like to do the same thing but hesitated running it out until it was too late this year.
I'll have a slightly smaller area ( 768 sq ft ) but only insulation ( R-19 ) in the ceiling, nothing but concrete block for the rest. An old oil furnace from a mobile home ( about 50,000 btu ) gets it to about 60 degrees in cold weather.
:greenchainsaw:
coostv
ArboristSite Operative
I run the pump to the shop 24/7 as I just use water and I shut my furnace off when I do not need it. I also cut a slot in the plenum above the heat exchanger so I can slide a piece of OSB in to keep the heat in the exchanger when not in use.
I can maintain just about any temp I want to keep. I usually stay between 65 to 70 depending on how cold I feel.
modn
ArboristSite Operative
I loaded the boiler yesterday @6:00pm and when I went to load it @6:00am this morning I found I had a good bit of wood left. I decided to see what it would do as I haven't had it for a week yet. I arrived home at 5:30pm and found the temp to still be in the operating range @175 degrees and a little bit of wood left in it yet. We reached about 30 degrees today so it wasn' the norm, but then again I'm still impressed by it.
KH-1958
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Even with this last cold spell and wind I am averaging 15-18 hours between fillups, of course if we are home and the DHW is being used then it seems to be 12-15 hours. I have no complaints, I am glad it is not 8 hours!
pipe welder
ArboristSite Lurker
I'm happy for you guys that are getting these long burn times,wish it were me. Last night was no exception the woodmaster laid down on me again, guess I should expect it by now. Loaded at 10:00 last night and water temp down to 122 this morning and fire all but out at 5:30 AM. Had to build a fire in the inside stove to warm up the house. It,s burning now but I still have fire inside to carry the load. I wish it were different but when a 200 buck used piece of junk puts a 6000 dollar machine to shame then I got an issue with woodmaster, there is no way I could recommend this piece of crap to anyone, but I,ll make you a heck of a deal on one slightly used woodmaster 4400.
Scootermsp
ArboristSite Guru
Do you have a thermometer where the supply enters the house? If not check to see that you are not losing all your heat underground via wet pipes. All those BTUs are going somewhere...before writing off your OWB have a dealer or a very experienced Woodmaster owner come on site to try for a solution...something is very wrong! These things do better than you are describing and you deserve to get what you paid for. It could be something simple.....I have a CB so I'd be little help....best of luck sir.
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
I checked out the specs for the 4400 Woodmaster and the only thing I see thats a potential problem is the relatively small ( 112 gallons ) water reservoir. For your water temp to be 122 degrees in the morning means that sucker went out WAY before you checked it...assuming of course, you had it at least to 160 degrees as your stat setting. If its set at 180 its even harder to understand. Even pine ( what I'm presently burning ) should give 10 to 12 hrs in 30 degree temps and 8 to 10 hrs in 15 degree weather, assuming of course the unit is properly sized for the home size/insulation,etc etc.
Since the OWB is only 10 feet from your residence its unlikely its losing heat that much thru the pipes. The only possible reason is that your draft motor ( assuming you have one ) is constantly running but then it should be overheating your stat setting. Did you check during the day to make sure it wasn't too hot ? One thing I did notice was the whopping 164,000 btu propane heating unit. If your place requires that many btu's, then your present set up may well be too small.
Finally, the size of the metal pipe you ran should be 1 inch ID not OD. Wouldn't make that much a difference but it certainly wouldn't help. Kinda surprised you ran metal since water and metal dont get alone that well after a long period of time except for black pipe which is a little more forgiving compared to galvanized. And I wouldn't have run galvanized under any circumstances.. Hope you get her squared away. As mentioned, a dealer should be concerned about the rep of the unit they are selling.
Since the OWB is only 10 feet from your residence its unlikely its losing heat that much thru the pipes. The only possible reason is that your draft motor ( assuming you have one ) is constantly running but then it should be overheating your stat setting. Did you check during the day to make sure it wasn't too hot ? One thing I did notice was the whopping 164,000 btu propane heating unit. If your place requires that many btu's, then your present set up may well be too small.
Finally, the size of the metal pipe you ran should be 1 inch ID not OD. Wouldn't make that much a difference but it certainly wouldn't help. Kinda surprised you ran metal since water and metal dont get alone that well after a long period of time except for black pipe which is a little more forgiving compared to galvanized. And I wouldn't have run galvanized under any circumstances.. Hope you get her squared away. As mentioned, a dealer should be concerned about the rep of the unit they are selling.
November Wolf
ArboristSite Operative
I checked out the specs for the 4400 Woodmaster and the only thing I see thats a potential problem is the relatively small ( 112 gallons ) water reservoir. For your water temp to be 122 degrees in the morning means that sucker went out WAY before you checked it...assuming of course, you had it at least to 160 degrees as your stat setting. If its set at 180 its even harder to understand. Even pine ( what I'm presently burning ) should give 10 to 12 hrs in 30 degree temps and 8 to 10 hrs in 15 degree weather, assuming of course the unit is properly sized for the home size/insulation,etc etc.
Since the OWB is only 10 feet from your residence its unlikely its losing heat that much thru the pipes. The only possible reason is that your draft motor ( assuming you have one ) is constantly running but then it should be overheating your stat setting. Did you check during the day to make sure it wasn't too hot ? One thing I did notice was the whopping 164,000 btu propane heating unit. If your place requires that many btu's, then your present set up may well be too small.
Finally, the size of the metal pipe you ran should be 1 inch ID not OD. Wouldn't make that much a difference but it certainly wouldn't help. Kinda surprised you ran metal since water and metal dont get alone that well after a long period of time except for black pipe which is a little more forgiving compared to galvanized. And I wouldn't have run galvanized under any circumstances.. Hope you get her squared away. As mentioned, a dealer should be concerned about the rep of the unit they are selling.
Why would you not use galvanized piping? I have noticed on my unit and most others that all the nipples and fittings on these boilers are black pipe (some brass) and not galvanized. I always thought black pipe is for gas piping and galvanized is for water because black pipe will rust.
Anyways I know a couple people that have Woodmaster 4400's and they are very happy with them. One guy heats 3600 sq ft and loads once a day and the other guy fully loads his at 6pm and adds a couple logs at 6am.
I was going to buy one of these units but the dealer in lake city apparently was to busy to give me a quote so I went with a CB.
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
The galvanized pipe ( 8 inch ) which I used to go out of my indoor wood stove corroded in short order. The black pipe lasted for years ( 5 and counting )
and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again. I have a black pipe for the pop off relief valve for the oil burner which the plumbers used, not galvanized. To use any kind of metal pipe underground is not what I would do, especially since pex is cheap, durable and rustproof not to mention freeze resistant much more than galvanized.. but to each his own. What we are trying to figure out is the excessive wood usage.
To the point of discussion, the Woodmaster shouldn't be much different than most of the OWB's. None are particularly efficient, but the mass of water, insulation, and amount of wood adds up to what most guys are experiencing for burn times. Any great variation bears further investigation.
:greenchainsaw:
and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again. I have a black pipe for the pop off relief valve for the oil burner which the plumbers used, not galvanized. To use any kind of metal pipe underground is not what I would do, especially since pex is cheap, durable and rustproof not to mention freeze resistant much more than galvanized.. but to each his own. What we are trying to figure out is the excessive wood usage.
To the point of discussion, the Woodmaster shouldn't be much different than most of the OWB's. None are particularly efficient, but the mass of water, insulation, and amount of wood adds up to what most guys are experiencing for burn times. Any great variation bears further investigation.
:greenchainsaw:
pipe welder
ArboristSite Lurker
Don't know what happened to my earlier post,never made it here but I'm having computer problems. At this point in time one has got to know when to throw in the towel, no use in flogging a dead horse. I have an energy king dealer within driving distance so I am going over to check them out. Maybe I expected to much from the OWB. Don't mind the work but I want something for my labor and this unit is not performing to my standards, so time to move on.
ngzcaz
ArboristSite Operative
Sorry to hear that pipewelder.. if anything changes please post it so it can be shared with others, there's a wealth of knowledge available and the nice part is, most of it is first hand, real hands on experience, not something untested out of a book.
:greenchainsaw:
:greenchainsaw:
modn
ArboristSite Operative
There is more than enough information from very qualified people here to make a qualified reason to why your not getting the most or even some out of your heater. When you have burning times as you claim, then it sure isn't rocket science to figure out what is wrong as all the bases have been covered. It sounds like you are asking what is wrong all the time and then everyone gets the same old answer of "I just hate it and it isn't what I expected" or somewhere close to that. Just put it in the paper and get rid of it. I'm sure someone will be more than happy to buy it and put it to good use. You claimed the $200 used inside woodboiler is outperforming it (or something like that). Well, there is your answer. Maybe even put another one in......again, get rid of the POS you claim you have and move on, simple as that.
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AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
If the price is right I might be interested. I am planning on building one for my daughter and son in law next year but I'd entertain the idea of just buying one.
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