Business deal gone bad..

[WolverineMarine]

Hey guys..I had a little thing that happened today and I wanna know what your opinions are and what options I may have..

I bid and got 2 tree jobs in the same neighborhood last week..a couple of guys I used to work with that had a chipper and truck helped me do them..the jobs get done..now..here the part that gets interesting..what I'm paying them of course..now Tyler used to be my lot foreman at Pennline..and and Joe used to one of the crew foreman I used to work with on occassion..now they own at some level of partnership another tree service.. I asked Tyler if they wanted some extra work as they hadnt been getting much so far this yr and was to be paid in the amount that the sum of the job was to be split 3 ways equally..well..the job gets done..well..Joe wants $1500out of the $2000 total the jobs paid..I offer $1400 cash to his face..he says no..Joe says hes doing me a favor and that I couldnt do it with out him and his chipper blah blah..I tell him hes not the only tree crew in town and I thought we were all doing each other a favor getting some work..whether I bid it too low or not..Its my name in the phone book..I bid and got the job..I stumped and did groundie work..I say thats what the job pays take it or leave it...he doesnt take it..a couple hrs later..he says I verbally agreed to the $1500 I said no I didnt..its your word against mine..he said he called the local sheriff and is filing a lien against the equipment of my business with his lawyer..which as you can see below..isnt that much..I have attemped obviously to pay this retard and he wont budge..what are my options and what do you guys think?

 

[ropensaddle]

Hey guys..I had a little thing that happened today and I wanna know what your opinions are and what options I may have..

I bid and got 2 tree jobs in the same neighborhood last week..a couple of guys I used to work with that had a chipper and truck helped me do them..the jobs get done..now..here the part that gets interesting..what I'm paying them of course..now Tyler used to be my lot foreman at Pennline..and and Joe used to one of the crew foreman I used to work with on occassion..now they own at some level of partnership another tree service.. I asked Tyler if they wanted some extra work as they hadnt been getting much so far this yr and was to be paid in the amount that the sum of the job was to be split 3 ways equally..well..the job gets done..well..Joe wants $1500out of the $2000 total the jobs paid..I offer $1400 cash to his face..he says no..Joe says hes doing me a favor and that I couldnt do it with out him and his chipper blah blah..I tell him hes not the only tree crew in town and I thought we were all doing each other a favor getting some work..whether I bid it too low or not..Its my name in the phone book..I bid and got the job..I stumped and did groundie work..I say thats what the job pays take it or leave it...he doesnt take it..a couple hrs later..he says I verbally agreed to the $1500 I said no I didnt..its your word against mine..he said he called the local sheriff and is filing a lien against the equipment of my business with his lawyer..which as you can see below..isnt that much..I have attemped obviously to pay this retard and he wont budge..what are my options and what do you guys think?

What I think is all things of this nature should have paper to cover each others azz.

 

[tree md]

Here's what I think:

Never do partners. Never offer to split money or profits.

If you are hiring these guys to do your chipping agree to pay them an hourly rate or a pre established amount. In other words, either hire them as employees or hire them as contractors. Never say that we will split the profits. That puts your help on equal footing with you. It's your job, your sales, your insurance. Why would you want partners? Why would you want to give someone the idea that they are equal and leave the door open for them to talk and negotiate with your clients?

Partners do not work in this business. Trust me on that one.

 

[treeclimber101]

Here's what I think:

Never do partners. Never offer to split money or profits.

If you are hiring these guys to do your chipping agree to pay them an hourly rate or a pre established amount. In other words, either hire them as employees or hire them as contractors. Never say that we will split the profits. That puts your help on equal footing with you. It's your job, your sales, your insurance. Why would you want partners? Why would you want to give someone the idea that they are equal and leave the door open for them to talk and negotiate with your clients?

Partners do not work in this business. Trust me on that one.

So I guess us teaming up is out of the question???

 

[tree md]

So I guess us teaming up is out of the question???

Nothing is out of the question. Sure, we may team up... I may even groundie for you but it would be my job and I would be in charge of the business negotiations. I keep all avenues open for business and never burn bridges.

I have contracted many climbers. A few from this site. I mostly leave them alone to do their work while I move on to another job and do my thing. Sometimes we have worked together. Still it is understood that they are servicing my clients and what I pay them is pre established before a saw is ever fired up. I have never had any problems with contract climbers. They can be a great asset when you have more business than you can handle.

 

[ropensaddle]

Nothing is out of the question. Sure, we may team up... I may even groundie for you but it would be my job and I would be in charge of the business negotiations. I keep all avenues open for business and never burn bridges.

I have contracted many climbers. A few from this site. I mostly leave them alone to do their work while I move on to another job and do my thing. Sometimes we have worked together. Still it is understood that they are servicing my clients and what I pay them is pre established before a saw is ever fired up. I have never had any problems with contract climbers. They can be a great asset when you have more business than you can handle.

So lets get the ball rolling here, how many customers do we have pard:monkey::

 

[tree md]

So lets get the ball rolling here, how many customers do we have pard:monkey::

Oh, I still have the same client base as I did before. Just not as much work as I had when we were planing to hook up before... I'll call ya on the next storm.

 

[tree md]

Sad thing is, I have not been able to hire a climber in over a year. I had one but he didn't work out so I have been doing all of my own climbing for actually about 2 years now.

Sadly, I think that is about to change. I am going to be forced to hire one I think. I got some health stuff going on that is probably going to keep me out of the tree for a little while. I am going to try to finish up what I got on the line right now then look for a climber.

 

[ropensaddle]

Oh, I still have the same client base as I did before. Just not as much work as I had when we were planing to hook up before... I'll call ya on the next storm.

I just can't get no rise outta ya MD lol I wasoke:in ya and you just say that lol.

 

[ropensaddle]

Sad thing is, I have not been able to hire a climber in over a year. I had one but he didn't work out so I have been doing all of my own climbing for actually about 2 years now.

Sadly, I think that is about to change. I am going to be forced to hire one I think. I got some health stuff going on that is probably going to keep me out of the tree for a little while. I am going to try to finish up what I got on the line right now then look for a climber.

Next time I tell ya to stay away from those skanks you will listen:hmm3grin2orange:







Seriously, I hope you get well friend , no ill will implied just joking.

 

[tree md]

None taken buddy.

Thanks. I'm sure I will bounce back from this one. I always have in the past. They ain't found a way to kill me yet...

 

[treemandan]

So lets get the ball rolling here, how many customers do we have pard:monkey::

i got it, which is pretty good considering I am kinda dim.

 

[WolverineMarine]

I have done work with these guys before..and they have been expensive..but they do do good work..really good work..now I'm not questioning this guys ability to do work..I have been around a lot of climbers..and this guy might be the best I've seen..but in the course of our argument..he lectured me about 20 other different things he thought I did wrong..etc..I was like Joe..if you're so good..why am I gettting alot of work..and you arent? I'm bidding low..but the economy around here wont support premium prices like it used to..theres more competition in this area than ever before..and customers are calling 5 to 10 or more outfits to get estimates and the best price. If we go to court..and the judge asks me why I havent paid him..I'm gonna tell him I offered cash to him in person but he refused to take $100 less..I think the judge is going to laugh and tell him to get over it..I mean..if this guy wants to spend $1000 to get a $100..let him..hes got a major ego problem...I think hes after to prove a point that hes Joe Keller and what he says is the law..and I'm gonna be like well at Accurate Tree Service(my company) Joe Keller gets what I pay him or he can shove it up his a:censored: and keep walking..

 

[treemandan]

Sad thing is guys have to be this way. If what you say is true then it sounds like they are trying to muscle you Wolvy. Ain't that something huh?
I really do hope you all can get it settled. sounds like some straight up Cain and Able BS.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have done work with these guys before..and they have been expensive..but they do do good work..really good work..now I'm not questioning this guys ability to do work..I have been around a lot of climbers..and this guy might be the best I've seen..but in the course of our argument..he lectured me about 20 other different things he thought I did wrong..etc..I was like Joe..if you're so good..why am I gettting alot of work..and you arent? I'm bidding low..but the economy around here wont support premium prices like it used to..theres more competition in this area than ever before..and customers are calling 5 to 10 or more outfits to get estimates and the best price. If we go to court..and the judge asks me why I havent paid him..I'm gonna tell him I offered cash to him in person but he refused to take $100 less..I think the judge is going to laugh and tell him to get over it..I mean..if this guy wants to spend $1000 to get a $100..let him..hes got a major ego problem...I think hes after to prove a point that hes Joe Keller and what he says is the law..and I'm gonna be like well at Accurate Tree Service(my company) Joe Keller gets what I pay him or he can shove it up his a:censored: and keep walking..

If it goes to court he will get what they decide, may be in your favor, may be in his. I am not trying to steer you away from going just point out that judges and lawyers decide in that arena.

 

[ropensaddle]

And just for the record, all of my pardners run rabbits and eat $#!+... :hmm3grin2orange:

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what's up doc?:monkey:

 

[WolverineMarine]

Sad thing is guys have to be this way. If what you say is true then it sounds like they are trying to muscle you Wolvy. Ain't that something huh?
I really do hope you all can get it settled. sounds like some straight up Cain and Able BS.

Dano..he IS trying to muscle me..and I aint gonna put up with his crap..he said the other night after I told him $1400..he said 1500 non-negotioable..period..he doesnt wanna compromise..fine..there was a pre-arranged amount to fall on with his partner of everyone gets an eqaul 1/3..regardless if he says the other guy was authorized to agree or not...I didnt know of that arangement..thats the original deal..and according to to my cousin whos a lawyer in another state..thats what is typically adhered to in court..this dude has tried to muscle me before..and the b/s stops here..I'm not gonna let this dude try and tell me how to run my show..theres plenty of other guys out there that will do the work on the side..he wants to bad mouth me..it just goes to show how unprofessional he really is..although he says he's so good..the truth speaks in the heat of the moment..bottom line..screw him..

 

[treemandan]

Dano..he IS trying to muscle me..and I aint gonna put up with his crap..he said the other night after I told him $1400..he said 1500 non-negotioable..period..he doesnt wanna compromise..fine..there was a pre-arranged amount to fall on with his partner of everyone gets an eqaul 1/3..regardless if he says the other guy was authorized to agree or not...I didnt know of that arangement..thats the original deal..and according to to my cousin whos a lawyer in another state..thats what is typically adhered to in court..this dude has tried to muscle me before..and the b/s stops here..I'm not gonna let this dude try and tell me how to run my show..theres plenty of other guys out there that will do the work on the side..he wants to bad mouth me..it just goes to show how unprofessional he really is..although he says he's so good..the truth speaks in the heat of the moment..bottom line..screw him..

he is doing it cause it sounds like he does not think very highly of you. Sounds like he is playing you for a chump. it might be true that you are lacking in the tree skills ( hell, what was that picture of the prune job with the spikes?) but he should stick to the origanall agreement.
I wouldn't budge. The other guys will lie thier asses off in court. They obviously do not take kindly towards you.

 

[WolverineMarine]

I never said I was an expert(and yes I admitt to wearing spikes on the prune job..but it was a city tree)..but we all gotta start somewhere and go from there..thats why I dont do this full time..just a more or less something I enjoy doing on the side to help pay for school right now..

 

[treemandan]

I never said I was an expert(and yes I admitt to wearing spikes on the prune job..but it was a city tree)..but we all gotta start somewhere and go from there..thats why I dont do this full time..just a more or less something I enjoy doing on the side to help pay for school right now..

I am aware of that. BUT " but it was a city tree?" I think that makes it worse. Do these other two guy spike prune jobs?

That is probably part of the animosity between you and these guys. The fact that at your level they feel you should not be a purveyor of tree work. Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong.
You are right about having to start somewhere though and its your right to do so. I would pay those guys what I felt was the original deal and let the rest run its course. I would walk in thier shop, hand them cash and get a reciept. If you think there might be trouble call the cops and tell them you are headed down there. Whatever happens... and you can lie your ass to... just make sure you look like you were in the right in the eyes of the law cause this mess might get dicey over the years.