Complete Stihl 041AV Super step-by-step rebuild - very pic heavy! (for 041 newbies)

[JJuday]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but if anyone can lend a helping brain, I have a few questions. My father passed and out of the basement garage came a lovely find in a yep, you guessed it, an 041AV(All it has is "STIHL 041 AV" on the top plate, so is this a points setup?).

It runs strong, or seems to, however at idle the chain continuously moves. I checked the clutch assembly out and all seems well with it...everything seems to be in place at least. Should I try and idle it down(it seems close for a 2 stroke but then again I don't have a tach) or should I be more concerned with the clutch?

I am also trying to figure out the oiling system. I have adjusted the oiler control knob both ways and it hasn't seemed to have made a difference. I haven't been able to get it to sling a stream at all. Should I be worried about the oiler as I haven't found any leaks thus far. Looking from the top, which way is the knob to be turned to increase/decrease oil displacement? I am under the assumption that it locks out also, or will it come out if turned to far in one direction?

Any help would be appreciated. I have already submitted a request for a paper manual with Stihl, but if anyone has an electronic version that they would be willing to send over that would be great(I will submit a request in the manual request thread also if I don't get a reply here).

Note: OP, thanks for the due diligence in updating the build with pictures.

Yes, it will be the points set up. That is not a bad thing though. As for the clutch question, try to idle it down till the chain dosen't move. The oiler....do not turn oil adjust knob to full + because it will damage the oiler adjust pin. I know from experience. If you take off the top cover and turn the oil adjust knob ccw till you can get it out look at the pin. Does it have a ball on the bottom? If it does good. If not it's broken and the knob is still in the case. I got mine out with a series of left hand drill bits and a grab-bit. If this happend to you saw also check the plunger portion at the front, just above the chain tensioner. If it leaks check the face for cracks. This will be a result of the plunger moving too far forward in the cylinder. A snap ring holds the oiler in, take it out and remove one of the screws from you muffler cover, 4-15mm if I remember right, anyway one muffler cover screw is what you need to thread into the female threaded face of the oiler. Pull it out and you will be able to see up into the piston recess, this will help if you need light if you are looking from above. Now the oiler it's self....while you are in there you might as well replace the seals on the piston it's self, they are just a few bucks and you might as well get a new assembly boot too. These parts are getting to the point of being NLA at the dealers so get them while you can. Back to the oiler, if it has cracked at the front like mine did you will have to JB weld it or apoxy, anything to seal the leak. I had the same problem with mine, I adjusted the oiler and BAM no oil. The ball that I am talking about on the oil controll pin is what engages the piston further into the cylinder, less engagement=less oil, more engagement=more oil becasue you are changing the lenght of the piston stroke. Too much and it can bottom on the end of the cylinder and damage it and results in snapping the controll pin.

Sorry for hitting you with all of that at once. I've been there and done that with that same saw so if you have more questions you can either post back or P.M. me and I'll try to help the best I can. I have the maint. manual and IPL and owners book, get ahold of me and I can get you hooked up eith all of that too. JJuday

 

[Brmorgan]

I'd never heard of that problem with adjusting the oiler all the way to its max before, thanks for the info. Do you mean if it's overtorqued in that direction, or that just being opened up 100% makes it more prone to the failure you described? I have encountered a couple other oilers that still work if opened up 100% but actually seem to pump less than if they were backed off just a bit to, say, 90% for some reason. I couldn't really tell you which saws those were on though.

 

[JJuday]

I'd never heard of that problem with adjusting the oiler all the way to its max before, thanks for the info. Do you mean if it's overtorqued in that direction, or that just being opened up 100% makes it more prone to the failure you described? I have encountered a couple other oilers that still work if opened up 100% but actually seem to pump less than if they were backed off just a bit to, say, 90% for some reason. I couldn't really tell you which saws those were on though.

Well here was the situation. I had just rebuilt the carb on this saw and was rarrin' to get some trigger time on it. Put a 20'' b&c on it, and started to cut some old dead and dry Hickory log. I noticed that the bar was getting a little warmer than normal and thought I'll adjust the oiler. I knew right where the adjuster was but coiuldn't remember what way to turn so I got a flashlight and saw the large arrow and small arrow. I thought if more was good EVEN MORE would be better in the Hickory. I opened up 100%. At first it slung oil! Put it in the cut and not even got all the way through and the bar got so hot the chain stopped in it's tracks! So I took it back to the shop and removed b&c and unstuck chain from bar chain groove, with the help of vise-grips!!! That is when I noticed oil all over my bench and all over the front of the saw. There is a small aluminum cap in the front center of the face of that oiler if you look at it from the front. Mine had a crack in it and that is where all the oil had escaped from. Not only that but the engagement/adjustment pin had broke off just about flush with that ball end down in the slot that it sits in. I read in the manual only after trying to get an idea of what was wrong and it said "Do not engage oiler to full or damage to oiler will occur" :jawdrop: So I didn't read that far into the manual.....maybe like I should have. The ball end increases the forward stroke of the oiler piston and apparently it will run into the backside of the cylinder, where the oil passage through the cylinder is. If you look into the front of the cyinder using the passage holes you'll see the back side of that little aluminum cap. Apparently mine set far enough back that when the piston came full stroke it smacked the cap cracking it and had enough preasure to snap that adjustment knob shaft above the ball end. For those of you who aren't familiar with that set up the bottom of the ball end is threaded and threads into the housing. When it breaks it's no fun to get out. With the piston all the way forward it apparently cannot pull as much because the piston it's self might be partially blocking the oil passage which may explain why some set at 100% seem to put out less oil. Not sure, I'm just glad I got it fixed! Oh, BTW new oilers are almost 90$ and still can be bought at the dealerships. No, I wasn't going to pay that for one! This is what happened to mine, will it happen to all of them? Maybe, maybe not, but after I read the "do not" in the manual I couldn't understand why they would make the oiler that way. I guess I hit the red self destruct button!! JJuday.

 

[BattleSausage]

Yes, it will be the points set up. That is not a bad thing though. As for the clutch question, try to idle it down till the chain dosen't move. The oiler....do not turn oil adjust knob to full + because it will damage the oiler adjust pin. I know from experience. If you take off the top cover and turn the oil adjust knob ccw till you can get it out look at the pin. Does it have a ball on the bottom? If it does good. If not it's broken and the knob is still in the case. I got mine out with a series of left hand drill bits and a grab-bit. If this happend to you saw also check the plunger portion at the front, just above the chain tensioner. If it leaks check the face for cracks. This will be a result of the plunger moving too far forward in the cylinder. A snap ring holds the oiler in, take it out and remove one of the screws from you muffler cover, 4-15mm if I remember right, anyway one muffler cover screw is what you need to thread into the female threaded face of the oiler. Pull it out and you will be able to see up into the piston recess, this will help if you need light if you are looking from above. Now the oiler it's self....while you are in there you might as well replace the seals on the piston it's self, they are just a few bucks and you might as well get a new assembly boot too. These parts are getting to the point of being NLA at the dealers so get them while you can. Back to the oiler, if it has cracked at the front like mine did you will have to JB weld it or apoxy, anything to seal the leak. I had the same problem with mine, I adjusted the oiler and BAM no oil. The ball that I am talking about on the oil controll pin is what engages the piston further into the cylinder, less engagement=less oil, more engagement=more oil becasue you are changing the lenght of the piston stroke. Too much and it can bottom on the end of the cylinder and damage it and results in snapping the controll pin.

Sorry for hitting you with all of that at once. I've been there and done that with that same saw so if you have more questions you can either post back or P.M. me and I'll try to help the best I can. I have the maint. manual and IPL and owners book, get ahold of me and I can get you hooked up eith all of that too. JJuday

I appreciate your help. I got the clutch/chain problem fixed as it was a combination of both the bar/chain needing some adjustment and also(& mainly) the carb needing some adjustment. As far as the oiler, I realized that the original oiler control knob had been replaced, hence no arrows so I didn't know which way to go. I did adjust the oiler to the full open position and took it outside to test the sling pattern on an old dry peace of wood. I won't say that it slung a lot of oil but I did notice upon checking the bar/chain that they were well lubricated. I still don't think that the oiler is working properly but I need to try it out on some "good" wood and see how it does. I may be pulling it apart after all. I also tried to turn the knob ccw until it backed out but it stopped after about 5-6 rounds, so is there any way that I will damage anything by torquing this sucker to unscrew it?

 

[Brmorgan]

I appreciate your help. I got the clutch/chain problem fixed as it was a combination of both the bar/chain needing some adjustment and also(& mainly) the carb needing some adjustment. As far as the oiler, I realized that the original oiler control knob had been replaced, hence no arrows so I didn't know which way to go. I did adjust the oiler to the full open position and took it outside to test the sling pattern on an old dry peace of wood. I won't say that it slung a lot of oil but I did notice upon checking the bar/chain that they were well lubricated. I still don't think that the oiler is working properly but I need to try it out on some "good" wood and see how it does. I may be pulling it apart after all. I also tried to turn the knob ccw until it backed out but it stopped after about 5-6 rounds, so is there any way that I will damage anything by torquing this sucker to unscrew it?

YES!!! It won't come all the way out just by "unscrewing" it CCW. There is a clip on the bottom that holds it into place. You have to take the clutch cover off, and then remove the (often pink) plastic sacrificial chip deflector / chain-guard strip in behind the clutch itself to get at it. It'll likely be packed right full of gunk in there if it hasn't been thoroughly cleaned in a while.

You can just barely see the bottom stub of the oiler knob above the crankshaft in this photo from earlier in the thread:

Sorry I don't have anything more detailed right now.

 

[BattleSausage]

YES!!! It won't come all the way out just by "unscrewing" it CCW. There is a clip on the bottom that holds it into place. You have to take the clutch cover off, and then remove the (often pink) plastic sacrificial chip deflector / chain-guard strip in behind the clutch itself to get at it. It'll likely be packed right full of gunk in there if it hasn't been thoroughly cleaned in a while.

Thanks, I'll be sure now and look for this when I pull it apart this weekend. I may just pull this thing apart and put new seals in it, after all it is over 30 years old.

 

[SpaayDawg]

Thanks, I'll be sure now and look for this when I pull it apart this weekend. I may just pull this thing apart and put new seals in it, after all it is over 30 years old.

I'd call your dealer and see if they have them or can still get them before you take anything apart. My dealer wasn't able to get seals for mine, but had a set stashed away in the back along with a set of bearings. Now if I could just find myself a Super cylinder I'd be in business!

 

[fire1156]

Dads Stihl 041

Hey guys....just found this site. I also have my dads old chainsaw and have really wanted to rebuild. Me and my eleven year old are in the process of doing this. First of all..this thing has been sitting for approximatly 15 years. Is this even possible? I am willing to spend $300 to $400 to have my dads saw running again. But are parts available? The piston is seized...of course. I am sure I need new cylinder. Brings up another point of frustration.....how do I remove cylinder from crank? There are four allen head bolts that seem impossible to access!
I looked every where for manual, but I did not want to pay a web site for download. Have had terrible luck with these in past. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Bryan

 

[Brmorgan]

For the manual, put a request in over in the "beg for manuals" thread. I have a parts list/diagram but I don't think I have a service manual for them.

You'll need a long Allen wrench to get down through the cylinder to the bolts. I can't remember the wrench size needed offhand right now though.

041 parts are fairly plentiful and cheap, unless you find yourself needing to replace an electronic ignition. You shouldn't need to come anywhere close to your "budget" on this thing though. You could rebuild one from the ground up with used parts for less.

Is the piston seized or is the oiler leaking? I had that problem with one of mine; the little rubber O-ring in the oiler had failed, allowing bar oil into the cylinder when the saw sat unused. There's no way you can pull it over with oil in the cylinder so it'll feel like it's seized right up.

 

[Dave Lee]

041 61-72cc build - piston/cylinder availability?

Greetings from NZ!

I love my well-weathered 041AV - had it a few yrs now after purchasing from an ole lumberman. I've had to replace a few bits and modify the starter spring retainer after my local Stihl shop's 3rd attempt at getting his new spring to stop unfurling.

When folks look at it they scoff at the outward appearance (it's done a few cords in its life) until it does the business with ease and they realise they might have paid too much for their new fangled saw. Yep - a heart of gold inside that worn exterior! I use it for a mix of firewood and felling on my property but there are a couple of jobs (large trees that my 28" bar won't touch) that need more horsepower, and I'm keen to see if a 36-40" bar is possible. Someone suggested it would with a skip tooth chain, but I like the challenge of getting something going better than the factory (doing that with my ZZR1100 bike now) so hence this post with a view to open heart surgery on the beast.

First thoughts were maybe some porting /piston skirt work to see if that yields anything, though I don't want to lose the famed reliability, nor empty a tank of gas in the blink of an eye for minimal gain. [When I was 19 I ported my GT380 Suzuki to gain about 3mph top end and lose about 20% in economy - that was a painful introduction.]

So the big bore option is of much interest, but wondering if anyone has a 72cc Super cylinder/piston combo in their shed they are willing to part with?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[Brmorgan]

I think an 041 Super would pull a 36" skip chain if it needed to. I wouldn't want to do it often, but it would get it done. Not sure if they still have them, but a couple months ago Bailey's was offering some OEM Super pistons and cylinders. I don't remember the prices exactly but I know you'd be looking at a few hundred dollars. Might not be worth it for you. They're pretty hard to find used; they come up once in a while though.

I ported my Super out a fair bit, and decked the cylinder down and lost the base gasket to get as much compression as possible out of it. It has some pretty good grunt now. The biggest limitation IMO is the pipe-style muffler, especially the flange where it mounts to the cylinder. There isn't enough extra material there to really match it to the exhaust port well, plus the pipe design in itself seems somewhat restrictive to begin with. I think I put a couple photos of this at the beginning of the thread.

 

[BattleSausage]

Alright guys, so I got around to finally tearing apart this old 41av and give her a good inspection before restoring. Piston and cylinder looks great, no gouging of any kind...looks like my old man treated her right. Honestly, I probably could have just replaced/rebuilt the oiling setup and she would have kept trucking along for many more years but I wanted to do it right. So here are some questions

1)I am gonna order new rings, so what is the recommended gap from Stihl...I swear if it's in the manual I missed it!
2)Should I just order new bearings? These look good and everything seemed fine...so how many have seen or how often have these things gone out on you guys?

Thanks, you all have been very helpful thus far

 

[SamdaMan]

I bought one for $400 and one for $100 off ebay (041 super) (and a regulare 041 for $100) I destroyed the piston/cylinder on my first one .... ok noob error, didnt know the rings have to not be over that little pin lol broke the ring and tried it broken and that was the end of the piston and the clyinder heh ...

Anyway the 2nd one has a type ''B" cylinder and a type "E" piston (although both are 48mm). The service manual says that type E piston can work with the D, E, F and the C with the A B C types ....

Anyway just a heads up as something to look at the letter is stamped on the cyliner near the spark plug hole and the letter is stamped on the top of the piston head.

If anyone has a 48mm type C piston or a type E clyender Im in the market heh ....

 

[parrisw]

I bought one for $400 and one for $100 off ebay (041 super) (and a regulare 041 for $100) I destroyed the piston/cylinder on my first one .... ok noob error, didnt know the rings have to not be over that little pin lol broke the ring and tried it broken and that was the end of the piston and the clyinder heh ...

Anyway the 2nd one has a type ''B" cylinder and a type "E" piston (although both are 48mm). The service manual says that type E piston can work with the D, E, F and the C with the A B C types ....

Anyway just a heads up as something to look at the letter is stamped on the cyliner near the spark plug hole and the letter is stamped on the top of the piston head.

If anyone has a 48mm type C piston or a type E clyender Im in the market heh ....

I think I may have 1 or 2 new 041 pistons, I may have a super piston. I'll check later. Send me a PM about it so I don't forget.

 

[Moose5517]

The New Guy

Im a 041 super Newbie! just got one everything works except the oiler! What does I guy do to fix it?

 

[Brmorgan]

First, check that the oiler flow is turned up. There's an orange "knob" under the air filter box near where the carburetor mounts to the cylinder. There are arrows on the top explaining which direction increases or decreases the flow. Also check that the oiler hole in the bar mount isn't obstructed.

Assuming those check out OK... The oiler is the round recess in the front of the saw's chassis next to the bar mount and spikes. There is a snap ring in there that you need to remove first, once that's out of the way, thread any 5mm assembly bolt into the hole that's there, and pull firmly, and the oiler should slide right out. Check the rubber O-ring to see if it's failed; though usually if it fails the oiler will dump bar oil into the crankcase and the saw will feel as if it's seized, because the oil won't compress like air will if you try to pull the starter. Hope this helps!

 

[Moose5517]

The new guy

Thanks i will take a look at it. looking at buying another 041 super the oiler also does not work and it does not run he says its the carb gasket. Does that make sense? How hard is it to fix? What should it be worth?

 

[Jbevs]

Just bumping this to subscribe to it. For some reason all forum buttons are in german on this thread

 

[oldmanriver]

Intake moto seal

Nice thread. How did that moto seal work out on the intake?

 

[arrow13]

041 Super

Fantastic thread. I'm getting one tomorrow and these photos and comments are just what I need to work on it. Thanks a lot!