Controversial pruning at Cathedral Square, Brisbane

[lawmart]

my response to the picture first of all
- tree species
- age
- root zone (impact/disturbances)
- weather lately
- etc...
guys we have to look at why some thing like this might of been done in the first place . When I worked for the city of Toronto we did drastic crown reduction on willows, they were healthy trees, but they were old and started to show signs of failure so as a mater of public safety we had to.
When you have 100s of thousand's of people play and walking and having picnic under these trees the potential chances of failure and there by injury is not worth the risk to the city (it could cost them millions in damages).
The trees in question don't look in good shape, sucker growth as if it is die back, lots of dead limbs. etc.
My be they can/have an explanation of why this was done. perhaps some one with the knowledge at the city can explain there reason.

But from first glance it looks really bad. Too bad to be done on purpose with out a reason. (since i am a ex civic employee)

I really hope there is an valid explanation for this type of tree work. it looks like they should be removed at this point it is to much of an eye sore and probley will never amount to anything. and they are in a high visibility location this type of experment should of be done in the forestry yard or arboretum of some sort. This is not what you want the public to see, and if they are seeing it you should have some type of placaerd to explan why the trees look like they do. It just reflects badley on the city and its trained,eduacted certified Arborist,and Urban Foresters.

lawmart
play safe

 

[046]

for what it worth, hackjobs like are all over.
I'm in Okla. and you will still see freshly bobbed trees on occassion.
don't see how anyone could not understand this destroys the tree.

really a shame it had to happen in such a high visible location.

 

[Ekka]

The subject tree is a part of research with majority of the states qualified and recognised arborist involved.

Please name them. And then we'll all see what the majority is considered to be and what perhaps was the selection criteria.

And where are the records and costs of this "experiment" being kept. Can you publish it? If not, please direct us to them ... afterall they are public property funded for by ratepayers.

In Brief the subject tree was transplanted in 1987 and is considered significant green capital to Brisbane City Council. The subject tree recently had Hexazinone poured over a section of roots @ 20%. Basically long history with a detail of events supporting the actions to date. .

Who considered it significant and how was that assessment made? By the value of the transplant, or the aesthetic value it now exhibits?

Please lets all look beyond our knowledge of tree pruning principles and research Brisbane City Council offers arboriculture.

CSIRO also do a lot of federally funded research in appropriate places and facilites other than a public park. Also, in my experience, all their research is easily available on line and the premises are well signed.

The average Joe looking at this tree wouldn't have a clue what's going on and possibly perceive it as an appropriate way of treating trees.

Do you not think it would be prudent to erect a sign and advertise in the mainstream media what exactly is going here. You know, the places an average Joe might read about parks and trees.

How long has BCC had an arboricultural research centre and what is it's funding per annum?

To date, how much has been spent on that dying tree?

The long term management of that tree IF it survives will be continual and costly.

Why wouldn't it be more prudent to remove it, grind and excavate the area and plant something new?

I find, in a city which has very few VPO's on trees, little regulation for improper pruning and an epidemic of low skilled budget style "treeloppers" that this kind of exhibit is only going to encourage more malpractice.

The tree was not pruned in accordance to AS4373, in fact it was topped or lopped. I wonder what the repercussions would be to some-one doing that to a protected tree?

I am deeply concerned, and what is a shame if not sham is the way the council has gone about business. I have not read one article thru any industry body or publication about this tree or the others along wharf street.

Other posters have asked questions too, this is the real world, no politics or ivory towers here ... just real people wanting facts.

Sites like this have made huge in roads to the spread of information, quickly and easily available to all ... free. The internet, cameras, videos, mobile phones etc have made the world a small place ... news travels fast. it would be good to see more representation by authorities such as BCC and what they're doing etc ... this is the place.

 

[treeseer]

It's a shame when viewing responses from around the world that negatives which appear rather then real questions requesting explanations.

[/QUOTE
Jason I agree. My first response was: "Species?
Previous condition? Looks to have been lopped at a lower height some years ago.
Goals of pruning? That big honkin stub on the left remains after a whole lot of clearance was gained for the driveway. Will they have 20' vehicles passing by?"
These are real questions. Do you have the explanations?

The subject tree is a part of research with majority of the states qualified and recognised arborist involved.

Which professor at which academic institution is conducting or overseeing the research?

In Brief the subject tree was transplanted in 1987 and is considered significant green capital to Brisbane City Council.

Was the tree lopped in 1987 when it was moved?

The subject tree recently had Hexazinone poured over a section of roots @ 20%. Basically long history with a detail of events supporting the actions to date.

Please share these details. Here in the usa when trees are poisoned we excavate the contaminated soil with air tools, use carbon and bicarbonate to bind the poison, and try to flush out the rest. Was any of this done to the subject tree? 20% is a small part of the root zone--why was so much of the tree cut off? Why did this "majority of the states qualified and recognised arborist involved" choose to use horizontal cuts made at internodes, and large cuts close together near the stem, which tend to rot and send out weakly attached growth? What certifications and experience do these arborists have?

Please lets all look beyond our knowledge of tree pruning principles and research Brisbane City Council offers arboriculture.

Jason I don't understand this last sentence--something got lost in translation. If the BBC is offering some research to arboriculture, please let usknow where we can access the records for this experiment. If it is truly research, it should be totally transparent to the public. When the ISA comes to Brisbane in 2011, tree researchers from all around the world will be eager to see and learn from the results of this research.

 

[a_lopa]

that trees been transplanted,yeah right!

 

[OTG BOSTON]

It's a shame when viewing responses from around the world that negatives which appear rather then real questions requesting explanations. No-one answered my questions

The subject tree is a part of research with majority of the states qualified and recognised arborist involved.please name them, and their affiliations

In Brief the subject tree was transplanted in 1987 and is considered significant green capital to Brisbane City Council. The subject tree recently had Hexazinone poured over a section of roots @ 20%. Basically long history with a detail of events supporting the actions to date. lets hear the long history............... please
Please lets all look beyond our knowledge of tree pruning principles and research Brisbane City Council offers arboriculture.I don't get this statement at all. Is it like, "don't pay attention to the man behind the curtin???"

Honestly J-J your statement makes it seem like you are trying to dance around the issue, Please give us the whole story, no B.S.

Thanks

 

[Tree Machine]

I would also like to see the 'science' behind this 'experiment'.

An experiment is not usually limited to one tree. An experiment is preceded by an experimental design, a plan if you will. The plan here appears to have been, 'Let's top the thing indiscriminantly and create some huge wounds in the trunk to see if the tree will die'.

THAT should have been covered in the research part of the 'science', where you seek out published information relative to your proposed experiment. You would have found oodles of materials that would tell why you don't prune a tree that way and what will happen if you do. Doing a little background research can save you going down a road that has already been travelled and you can maybe use someone else's results to avoid the result you see in Cathedral Square.

If this was done in the name of science, and is legitimate, I guess I can see the reasons behind substandard pruning to create a horribly deformed tree in the CENTER of a public space for all to look at and ask the same question: What the heck were they thinking?

I'll patiently wait for the 'science' to surface. As said before, it should be transparent and available.

Until then, I sorta have to go with the group on this one, that it looks like the work of an incompetent person with a big ego, big truck and big saw who left behind a BIG mistake. Like Ray Benson said, "A slap in the face to all who live in Brisbane."

 

[treeseer]

your statement reeks of that of a political hack trying to dance around the issue,

OTG this post is problematic. Name-calling won't get us anywhere. Please edit.

Please give us the whole story, no B.S.
Thanks

This seems reasonable. To translate for Aussies, "B.S." is a yankee term that means "verbiage that obfuscates rather than elucidates".

Research partnering municipal and academic institutions can yield valuable information. I will withhold judgment on the pruning until I hear more about the tree's history and the other care taken, for the roots especially.

We're all ears, mate.

If Brisbane was chosen to host the ISA conference in 2011, they must value good tree care over there. Let's give them a chance to demonstrate the facts of the case before judging.

 

[vharrison2]

Jason-Jay, we are all ears. Lots of good questions have been raised, we await your response.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

OTG this post is problematic. Name-calling won't get us anywhere. Please edit.This seems reasonable.

O.K. but for purposes of clarification "hack" in my world isn't necessarily a negative term.

Research partnering municipal and academic institutions can yield valuable information. I will withhold judgment on the pruning until I hear more about the tree's history and the other care taken, for the roots especially.

I completely agree, I can think of a few situations that I have been involved with that would raise some eyebrows if posted here.
opcorn:

 

[xtremetrees]

We as treemen stand up for what gives us life. Evidence is were still here and the logs in the sky have continued to be forgiving to us. I understand how you feel a responsibility to the trees because your still alive.
No amount of scientific research can replace the loyalty from which this thread has sprung. A loylalty to life which a tree most magically displays.

Ekka continue to infuse your love of trees to all those around you. I am sorry they have attempted to twist and spin this most virtuous character trait if they have indeed will be found guilty of compound fraud.

To the councilman:
Trees do cross boundries; they as some people are instruments were glad your here .I would reccomend removal ASAP.If it were not such a high trafic area I would treat it over time. Remeber the tree didnt get sick overnight so its not gonna get well overnight. Remove and replace.

 

[squisher]

I re-iterate the tree looks terrible.

Was there a problem with this tree and is this someone's idea of treatment?
Please explain?
This tree was transplanted in 1987? Ekka can you confirm this?
Pictures, info, Jason-Jay if you've got any answers to these questions please share them. Your post was vague at best alluding to some higher knowledge that is being used to treat this tree.

Everyone here is posting and reading because of a love for trees and arboriculture (I hope) so don't be so quick to condem and dismiss if you put out the info you will get alot of intelligent responses (maybe not from me but from some of the big guns) that go way beyond pruning techniques.

 

[Dixie1]

unfortunately it is a widely used method of "pruning" where i live in arkansas. it makes me really mad. some "expert" tree service suggests one needs their tree topped, they have it done, then the neighbor sees it and they think if he did it, i must need mine topped too. it is a horrible money making scheme that degrades the beauty of our communities. when i see it done, i put a brochure from ISA on why tree topping is bad in their mailbox in hopes that they will read it and question the company they paid a lot of money too for them to ruin their trees. most of these trees are oaks and maples. i saw one southern magnolia that was topped in JULY when our temps where 106 F during the day. UUUGGGGHHHH! that is too bad that happened in such a high traffic area for the public to see. hopefully people won't see it as a good example of proper pruning and follow suit. here is a pic of that magnolia.

 

[jonseredbred]

all I am gonna say is it is a bad choice of location for an "experiment".........

 

[M.D. Vaden]

As busy as I was, completing a pond installation today, this thread came to mind when I stopped for coffee.

(since I tossed a freebie 20 minute pruning job on a damaged plum)

Many of us, have the experience to look at the tree in the first image, and know what inherently, should be expected on it's inside - a severe conditon.

That's why I posted the link to a cross-cut topped tree yesterday - to get it on the record. But not to educate all of us. We know these things already.

Anyway, as I reflected on this matter and the "apparent" experimental treatment, I concluded that the tree's situation is political.

In one way or another, small or large, some kind of political or community leverage must be involved. I could be wrong, but I'd give it a 95% chance that something political is occuring.

Maybe to save face, save somebody's hurt feelings, adhere to some religious belief, appease a citizen's group - whatever.

It's just not reasonable, to invest funds or time, into a tree that's so badly damaged.

Maybe one exception - a pure chemical experiment, with an absolute goal for removal in short order. But an experiment, even for that, should not occur in a municipal area. It could convey that butchered trees fit proper arboriculture.

 

[Baz]

Controversial pruning

The word that comes to mind is vandalism.

 

[Kate Butler]

answers?

Many have asked legitimate questions. The "answers" (thus far) have been those, that in the legal world, would be considered "non-responsive". Meaning that the verbiage does not answer the question, is vague and/or incomplete, and includes information that does not pertain to the question asked. Typical CYA.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The word that comes to mind is vandalism.

That word doesn't really fit.
I suspect Ekka's looking more for words like, Corruption, Kickback, Incompetence, and in the best case scenario, Ignorance.
For me, it's worrisome that a major city displays this tree as what proper tree care looks like. The council members are in a major city and they are ripe for promotion in to Australia's top political positions. Given that, this is an example of how they will care for an entire continent's natural resources?
I am deeply saddened.
It is interesting to see other countries, counties, cities, and even job sites, suffering from problems of greed, stupidity, incompetence, and dullards in office.
Is the problem as high as the mayors office?
Once there, the police are included. We all know the old saying, "You can't fight city hall", and it's true.

 

[Tree Machine]

Good point, Mike. I wonder if the Mayor knows. I would surmise he knows about the tree (how can THAT not come up in a meeting?) I doubt the Mayor was aware of the poor choices and deliberate actions that created the result.

Anyway, as I reflected on this matter and the "apparent" experimental treatment, I concluded that the tree's situation is political.

In one way or another, small or large, some kind of political or community leverage must be involved. I could be wrong, but I'd give it a 95% chance that something political is occuring

I'd give it a hundred percent.

Using Council money to display mutilated trees that are highly visible to the public is a poor use of Council funds. It's pretty obvious the research story is a lie being used to cover up the fact that the Council is wasting the publics money.

The only research I see happening is the testing of the publics acceptance of how much money the Council can waste before being held accountable.

The public doesn't really know. Council is greasing the palms of their mates. This stuff has been going on for thousands of years, all over the planet. Its nothing new it's all too easy to see what's going on.

Now low-stakes government money games are so easy to play, so very tempting. We are humans. It is human nature to want money, be greedy and take care of your own, no big news. But when you butcher an amazing old tree as a means of playing your politics, well dammit, you're getting real personal with a lot of us. In TREE CARE, all of us tree care professionals are connected by one common thing; Trees. What's been done to that tree is personally insulting. This tree sends the wrong message to the public of what the Tree Care Profession does.

 

[Ekka]

Here's some more pics I held back.