Crane removals....

[oldirty]

Seriously though from reading your posts in the past and seeing some pics of your work you seem to have the right attitude for the trade and the skills to back it up, So anytime I have the extra work load you are welcome to come down.

sounded like music to my ears when read it out loud....thanks man. thank you very much.

we are definitely going to set this up for sure. and soon.

 

[jomoco]

but anyway with the "shelf" you want to make it side to side so the crane go boom left or right to break it free. you dont want to do that over under with the boom because then it turns into a nightmare for the CO to get it loose.


When I think of a crane I think of it like an excavator. THe strongest pull is always towards the mounting point. Side to side is your weakest link. On out crane, we have a plastic sheeve that the cable sits on, and pulling it side to side, side loads the sheave and will damage it.
I am new to crane work as well but we do have a crane and I am trying to use more slings on tops after having some BIG cottonwood tops flip over on my first crane removal.
On wood, I always use the snap cut, using the clock analogy with the boom at 12. I put the chocker and ball on the 12 o'clock side. Start my cut at around 2 cut to about 8 and then square up to 4ish. THen I make a cut on the back side from 9- whenever the peice breaks off.
As for laterals and othe cuts everyone is varied, notches and standiong peices up, sometimes cutting from the top down about 60 percent, tension the cable, then undercut.
I am also seeking tips, I jsut follow what the boss says, but I always feel like their is a better way.
To me using a peice of have bull line would be the best thing for balancing peices. A running bowline on one end, and inline cloves hitch on the hook, and another clove hitch or running bowline on the other end. Besides weakning of the rope due to bend raidus and knot tying I see no problem with this, although have never used the technique.

This thread is killing me!

And it shocks me that the techniques a few of you guys have posted here haven't already hurt or killed the guys using them.

Any CO that rotates to break anything loose is an idiot that should be fired and lose his crane certification!

Any crane takedown climber should realize that maximum upper leverage of any crane stick pick is achieved by placing the choker on the pick at its farthest point away from the crane at 12 oclock, that would be the 6 oclock position. Not knowing that is unforgiveable in a crane scenario. The end of the boom where the cable comes off the pulley should be about 2 or 3 feet off center of the pick in the direction of the crane.

jomoco

 

[Ghillie]

Funny so many people use snap cuts, I rarlely ever feel the need. If you have a doubt in your mind that top might flip either reposition your straps or where you are making your cut if possible if not use the butt tie technique. Relief cut, position the butt tie, make cut, If all is well pop the rope off the pick and away it goes if not your ground guy can gently allow the top to flip in a controlled manor. Hope I described that in a way it makes sense.

I agree. I don't care for anything snapping while using a crane.

If we have any doubts on the piece flipping we'll choke it where we know it will flip, make a wide scarf (so the hinge doesn't break untill we cut it) start the back cut and lower the piece with the crane untill it won't swing uncontrollably, finishing the cut and releasing the piece nice and smooth.

 

[Ghillie]

This thread is killing me!

And it shocks me that the techniques a few of you guys have posted here haven't already hurt or killed the guys using them.

Any CO that rotates to break anything loose is an idiot that should be fired and lose his crane certification!

Any crane takedown climber should realize that maximum upper leverage of any crane stick pick is achieved by placing the choker on the pick at its farthest point away from the crane at 12 oclock, that would be the 6 oclock position. Not knowing that is unforgiveable in a crane scenario. The end of the boom where the cable comes off the pulley should be about 2 or 3 feet off center of the pick in the direction of the crane.

jomoco

Like I have said (or hinted at) I don't like the crane to do anything but to adjust tension on the piece while I am watching the kerf to gauge if he is lifting too much and the piece is going to spring up or break on me.

When everything goes as planned, the pieces gently swing a little away from me (the cutter) and nothing bounces.

 

[oldirty]

thats why you are in this thread jo! say what needs to be said man.


so i am correct in saying it should be ball, wood, boom right?

now you are adding to that by saying move the choker point a few feet off center from that?

is this to get a little bit of a twist as the pick is made?


bring what you know man!

and i gotta know. you directing that comment at me?

lol

 

[Blakesmaster]

Ball, wood, boom... I don't know OD. What are we talkin' about here?

 

[Ghillie]

Forgot I prefer my 361 most of the time while doing crane work but often I end up with the 372 24" and on rare occasions the 394 36" I hate those days.

I prefer the 371 with 24", and I rareley use the dawgs after about 1/3 of the wood is cut. I keep the bar moving in and out (staying in the cut though) making it easier to watch what is going on.

Really is a shoulder workout when you have to top-chain with this method.

 

[oldirty]

Ball, wood, boom... I don't know OD. What are we talkin' about here?

you are standing on the stem.


(back to the clock!)

ball goes at 6 , wood, crane's boom at 12.

with you at 3 or 9.

you dig?

 

[Blakesmaster]

No, I follow OD, just trying to make a joke. Hard for me not to snicker when I see ball and wood in the same sentence. Yes, I know I'm immature.

 

[Ghillie]

I hear someone typing....

 

[jomoco]

thats why you are in this thread jo! say what needs to be said man.


so i am correct in saying it should be ball, wood, boom right?

now you are adding to that by saying move the choker point a few feet off center from that?

is this to get a little bit of a twist as the pick is made?


bring what you know man!

and i gotta know. you directing that comment at me?

lol

Sorta OD, remember I'm talkin bout big vertical stick picks, and where to place the choke point on the stick in relation to the crane and pill, if the crane is at 12 oclock, the actual choke point on the pick should be at 6 oclock directlly opposite the crane. the pill shoud be 2-3 feet off the center of the pick straight towards the crane, this is to ensure that when the pick releases it moves away from you and towards the crane. As the pick moves away from you, a pro CO will always be booming up rather than spooling up with his puny little winch, not only does booming up get the pick away from you faster and towards the crane's center of gravity, it is also by far and away the more powerful maneuver.

If it's a real monster pick any where close to the cranes capacity, I'll cut a big vee at the top ring of the pick directly above the 6 oclock choke point, and thread the strap or steel choker through that vee and down to the pick choke point. This ensures the pick gets maximum leverage with no twist or dancing from the pick as it gently moves directly away from you and straight towards the cranes center of gravity.

That's exactly how I like to take big vertical picks as safely and smoothly as possible anyway.

Good luck guys!

jomoco

 

[Ghillie]

Sorta OD, remember I'm talkin bout big vertical stick picks, and where to place the choke point on the stick in relation to the crane and pill, if the crane is at 12 oclock, the actual choke point on the pick should be at 6 oclock directlly opposite the crane. the pill shoud be 2-3 feet off the center of the pick straight towards the crane, this is to ensure that when the pick releases it moves away from you and towards the crane. As the pick moves away from you, a pro CO will always be booming up rather than spooling up with his puny little winch, not only does booming get the pick away from you and towards the crane's center of gravity, it is also by far and away the more powerful maneuver.

If it's a real monster pick any where close to the cranes capacity, I'll cut a big vee at the top ring of the pick directly above the 6 oclock choke point, and thread the strap or steel choker through that vee and down to the pick choke point. This ensures the pick gets maximum leverage with no twist or dancing from the pick as it gently moves directly away from you and straight towards the cranes center of gravity.

That's exactly how I like to take big vertical picks as safely and smoothly as possible anyway.

Good luck guys!

jomoco

What do you prefer? steel chokers or nylon straps?

 

[Ghillie]

I agree on the boom up insted of winching. Moves it up and away from you instead of just up higher over your body.

 

[jomoco]

What do you prefer? steel chokers or nylon straps?

I personally prefer steel chokers Ghillie, that is unles I'm within close proximity to high power lines, at which point I use mushy stretchy icky nylon straps.

jomoco

 

[randyg]

I Don't Get It

Whats all this talk about snap cutting and crane pulling sideways of being like a backhoe and able to pull towards crane???? Crane is designed to lift straight up and lower straight down PERIOD! NEVER shockload wire rope wether on a crane or othewise. If chance for sling tightening or limb twisting or rotating under load exists, use wire rope choker. It won't melt and fail.

 

[treemandan]

There is no snapping in crane work. I have seen it done, one big rip all the way down.
As far as tops flipping? Well if the strap is in the middle and it flips its still the same distance right? worst is getting whipped by the tips but you can drop down. sometimes you have to let it flip, crane ain't tall enough or the end of the limb isn't strong enough. It usually flips while its being moved away anyway.
I can't say I ever had a problem with the angle cut, a notch, or just going right through using a crane. Now when I cut right through I use bark to keep the saw from pinching... so should you.
I think the 20's with an 18 inch bar are good for doing the tops then the 44.
I have tried to talk some operators into just using the hook to lower from. Nothing crazy but the jibs were not long enough to pick with really flipping. How about using the hook for the other side of a speedline? Keep in mind The Dan ain't gonna wreck no crane and shocking em ain't in the bargin either... anymore that is.

 

[Ghillie]

There is no snapping in crane work. I have seen it done, one big rip all the way down.
As far as tops flipping? Well if the strap is in the middle and it flips its still the same distance right? worst is getting whipped by the tips but you can drop down. sometimes you have to let it flip, crane ain't tall enough or the end of the limb isn't strong enough. It usually flips while its being moved away anyway.
I can't say I ever had a problem with the angle cut, a notch, or just going right through using a crane. Now when I cut right through I use bark to keep the saw from pinching... so should you.
I think the 20's with an 18 inch bar are good for doing the tops then the 44.
I have tried to talk some operators into just using the hook to lower from. Nothing crazy but the jibs were not long enough to pick with really flipping. How about using the hook for the other side of a speedline? Keep in mind The Dan ain't gonna wreck no crane and shocking em ain't in the bargin either... anymore that is.

Dan, I disagree (if I understand what you mean). If you need something in the kerf (bark or wedge) then something is wrong and you need to look and see what it is before you get a face full of wood.

If tensioning a little more or a little less doesn't fix the pinch, you're going to have a problem when it comes free.

 

[treemandan]

I agree on the boom up insted of winching. Moves it up and away from you instead of just up higher over your body.

winch first if you have to while cutting but boom up sucks it away. If one choker comes from the back to the hook, the side where you are cutting, the bottom comes at your face. In the front the top swings over you head. With 2 on the side it just goes. Keep that in mind if you ever really have a situation. One is usually fine.
I guess you guys mean notch when you say boxcut? I use that when winching limbs erect for the actuall pick. Never did no snapping. That angle cut comes off clean and in the direction you want it to go, gives a cradle and a place to duck. Quick to dole em out too. Just bim bam forget the boom. Before the angle cut I was stuck trying to be creative one half the time and burning up bars trying to blaze through in a single pass. Sure its nice to have the use of the peel for slowing it down but who the hell wants to slow down?

 

[Ghillie]

winch first if you have to while cutting but boom up sucks it away. If one choker comes from the back to the hook, the side where you are cutting, the bottom comes at your face. In the front the top swings over you head. With 2 on the side it just goes. Keep that in mind if you ever really have a situation. One is usually fine.
I guess you guys mean notch when you say boxcut? I use that when winching limbs erect for the actuall pick. Never did no snapping. That angle cut comes off clean and in the direction you want it to go, gives a cradle and a place to duck. Quick to dole em out too. Just bim bam forget the boom. Before the angle cut I was stuck trying to be creative one half the time and burning up bars trying to blaze through in a single pass. Sure its nice to have the use of the peel for slowing it down but who the hell wants to slow down?

I don't think so..... but I'm not sure what they are refering to when they say box cut.

 

[jomoco]

There is no snapping in crane work. I have seen it done, one big rip all the way down.
As far as tops flipping? Well if the strap is in the middle and it flips its still the same distance right? worst is getting whipped by the tips but you can drop down. sometimes you have to let it flip, crane ain't tall enough or the end of the limb isn't strong enough. It usually flips while its being moved away anyway.
I can't say I ever had a problem with the angle cut, a notch, or just going right through using a crane. Now when I cut right through I use bark to keep the saw from pinching... so should you.
I think the 20's with an 18 inch bar are good for doing the tops then the 44.
I have tried to talk some operators into just using the hook to lower from. Nothing crazy but the jibs were not long enough to pick with really flipping. How about using the hook for the other side of a speedline? Keep in mind The Dan ain't gonna wreck no crane and shocking em ain't in the bargin either... anymore that is.

If you have a good CO Dan, there's a little trick I've used many times to get out of reach crane picks to within the crane's reach fairly quickly.

Just pick a point well within the cranes reach, then tie off completely onto the pill at that point, butt tie the tree together with appropriately sized steel or nylon chokers, make your cuts between the two chokers with absolutely no attachment between you and the tree, and signal the CO to boom you up as the cut lets go and all the bullride action we're all too familiar with starts in earnest with you calmly watching it from safe above on your pill.

It works great, and after everything settles down in the tree, simply reattach yourself to it and butt choke the leader now hanging straight down, and gently lift it way from your sneaky tricky self.

Works for me anyway!

jomoco