Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!

[edisto]

Is that what you call it?? I know alot of people like to name their members but C'mon 076!!!:greenchainsaw:

Actually, I call it 076 Super.

And it's much more satisfying than viewing THALL's mental self-gratification...especially without the AV.









...and only takes about 20 seconds.

 

[Jtheo]

Good to see you speak your mind. Now I am gonna chime in on it. Nothing personal man!

This is not Brad's problem!!! This is not his saw. Ship it back to the owner and let him do the warranty work. Brad refused to work on it, which is fine. Ship it back and tell him you don't feel comfortable moddin' it.

Sub par? Definitely. Defective? Hardly. We don't even know how it ran.

"When I see junk I know it" Guess it took a while for that 5100 of yours to be called junk. Same thing with that 346 that was giving you problems. As far as we know, that cylinder doesn't look pretty and has a chip. Other than that, we know nothing else about it. Let's not jump to conclusions. Hopefully stihl takes a look in the mirror and realizes that their equipment needs to look as good as it functions.

I love how everyone claims that Stihl charges a premium price. Hardly, if 30 to 50 bucks is a premium price, give me a break. The only company that really has good prices on certain saws is Redmax. People buy these saws on the internet thinking they are getting a deal. Factor in shipping and the price difference is moot. Talk to your dealer about price, get a freebie thrown in. Are you really gonna pay the kind of money people ask for Efco's or Echo's? Just about every saw available out there are priced closely to any stihl saws in the same category. The 260 is the only stihl saw that is costs vastly more than the competitors. Options are great and I love checking out all saws, but Stihl's don't cost a premium price!!!

Well either Dolmar is too cheap, or Stihl is too high. Take your pick. I have both.

But I will say that if I find a piece of junk for a cylinder in my new 361, it won't live here long.

And don't tell me that the saw will run and cut wood.
There is more to a quality saw than that.

 

[Paul001]

OK, seems the consensus is that quality is failing. While this may not directly affect the performance of Brad's 260, it is a indication that Stihl might be going down a failing path, which will eventually lead to poor reliability down the road.

So, Stihlheads, you have homework today. I want you to all copy Brad's photos and put them in a Word document or PDF. Then, write your own captions to what you think is wrong with the machining work (possibly materials) on the particular part in the photo. Then, send the document off to:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


Don't make it a whiny complaining email. Don't threaten to leave as a customer. Just put in the facts and let Stihl know you are unhappy with failing quality control. There is strength in numbers. I am not naive to think it may change anything, but doing something is better than just complaining.

Thanks for the pics Brad.

Finially a sensable suggestion in this thread.

Get at it folks, might be interesting to hear the responses you get. As I said several pages ago, it doesn't matter what we think of the workmanship, Stihl ultimately determines if the quality seen in those photo's meets their requirements.

 

[Jtheo]

You factor in everything that is considered when buying a saw and tell me stihl isn't gonna win compared to those 2 other companies!! Stihl products are hard to turn down when everything is factored in. Come to Ohio and talk to the loggers, tree guys, landscapers. They will tell you why they run what they run. Nobody that I know around here is afraid to try another product if it is the better that what stihl offers in the class. Lots of brands being used around here, but the majority is Stihl. I wonder why?

I run a majority of stihl products, but I am not afraid or bias to own or try another saw. MY 262xp is way better than a 361 IMO. The 026 is a nice saw (great design), but it is slow compared to the others on the market and pricey. I bought my 270 over a 350 husky, I just liked the stihl better.

You don't have to wonder why, You know why. Because of quality products that would last. but, let the loggers, tree guys and landscapers find out how Stihl has put profit over quality , let them get some saws with junk cylinders, and see what happens to their loyality.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Jtheo]

Go to Ohio with pics of that cyliner and that tuff looking rod (show them THALLS gently coaxed rod, it doesn't have to be bent to look like cheap crap). Show them to the loggers without telling them the brand and ask them what they think.

You'd be a fool to argue that there is not a reason for loyalty to the Stihl brand. But you'd be an even bigger fool to hope that will be enough to get people to overlook shoddy workmanship and materials.

I am sure that General Motors thought they were too big to fail. Some of their dealers probably thought the same thing.

Kind of looks like they are on the ropes now.

Anybody who thinks that a drop in quality will not affect their sales is not living in the real world.:greenchainsaw:[/I]

 

[Adirondack]

Has anyone seen the same problem with other Stihl saws?

If this is just one isolated case it is probably no big deal.

I guess you just assume if the Stihl name is on it it is the best quality. I guess all they really have to produce is quality that will last the year of the warranty. As a home owner I was seriously considering a Stihl. I generally like to buy the best quality because I have learned my lesson when I buy lower quality tools. It was hard for me to take the leap of faith and buy a dolmar instead of Stihl.

I knew if dolmar (and Husky) were getting such good reviews from people who really liked Stihl saws they must be doing something as good or better. For dolmar and Husky to even compete with Stihl they would have to put out either as good or better quality than Stihl to compete with brand loyalty. I took a chance that dolmar needed to be better just to compete as an equal and that is why I bought a dolmar instead of a Stihl. Plus I did feel like my money was better spent considering reviews, weight to power, and cost. I do understand many companies rely on their reputation and when the company gets very big the prospective of quality seems to diminish. Mainly because many of the corporate people probably do not have experience to know how QUALITY is what built the company in the first place.

 

[litefoot]

I am sure that General Motors thought they were too big to fail. Some of their dealers probably thought the same thing.

Kind of looks like they are on the ropes now.

Anybody who thinks that a drop in quality will not affect their sales is not living in the real world.:greenchainsaw:[/I]

Everyone else has posted on this thread, so I guess I might as well do my part to lengthen it out a bit.

My saws are almost exclusively Stihl because I believe, up until now, they are built better and I KNOW they have higher resale value and dealers are everywhere. Husky saws generally have better anti-vibe, filtering and I like the fact that they aren't afraid to put out a take-no-prisoners hot saw (see the 262XP). But the Stihl advantages are more important to me. If you take that build quality away, then resale value will diminish over time, and it won't make much sense to pay the premium.

I'm not insinuating that the quality is tailing off. That cylinder may be an aberation. Just making a general statement that probably applies to a lot of us.

 

[Andyshine77]

What, we're all the same?

Andy, you ought to do some reading before you lump us all together.

Good point not every dealer is the same

I've read every post in this thread and I've drawn my own conclusions.

I was very open with the issues I had with my 5100, from day one, and my 346 stihl has some issues that need to be worked out before I'm 100% satisfied with it.

I'm not a spin doctor, I try and call it as I see it.

 

[Andyshine77]

Good to see you speak your mind. Now I am gonna chime in on it. Nothing personal man!

This is not Brad's problem!!! This is not his saw. Ship it back to the owner and let him do the warranty work. Brad refused to work on it, which is fine. Ship it back and tell him you don't feel comfortable moddin' it.

Sub par? Definitely. Defective? Hardly. We don't even know how it ran.

"When I see junk I know it" Guess it took a while for that 5100 of yours to be called junk. Same thing with that 346 that was giving you problems. As far as we know, that cylinder doesn't look pretty and has a chip. Other than that, we know nothing else about it. Let's not jump to conclusions. Hopefully stihl takes a look in the mirror and realizes that their equipment needs to look as good as it functions.

I love how everyone claims that Stihl charges a premium price. Hardly, if 30 to 50 bucks is a premium price, give me a break. The only company that really has good prices on certain saws is Redmax. People buy these saws on the internet thinking they are getting a deal. Factor in shipping and the price difference is moot. Talk to your dealer about price, get a freebie thrown in. Are you really gonna pay the kind of money people ask for Efco's or Echo's? Just about every saw available out there are priced closely to any stihl saws in the same category. The 260 is the only stihl saw that is costs vastly more than the competitors. Options are great and I love checking out all saws, but Stihl's don't cost a premium price!!!

Like I said, I was up front with how I felt about my 5100 from day one.http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=83208&highlight=5100

 

[edisto]

Enough with the misdirection.

Whether is runs or not is STILL not the issue. Never was the issue. The only way the (necessarily short term) performance would matter would be if you were trying to make the argument that what we saw was not shoddy work, but in fact the latest in engineering.

Was that "chip" actually a speed divot? Is the uneven casting on the cooling fins a clever way to harness turbulent flow for more efficient cooling? Does chamfering only one side of a transfer actually improve scavenging? Does the lip on the intake produce resonant effects that stuff the crankcase with a high-pressure air-fuel mixture? Maybe THALL is right...maybe these cylinders are more expensive than the German-made ones because of all these new innovations.

"Does it run?" is not the question. It it sub-par? There doesn't seem to be any disagreement there.

A comparison with a saw sporting a German-made cylinder might be interesting, but I'll tell you right now, if a saw with that cylinder performed as well as a Stihl with a well-made cylinder, that would not be saying ANYTHING good about Stihl products.

Joat, I've always enjoyed your posts because you've often made sense in a storm of confusion. I can see why you might be disappointed in Brad for rescinding his offer, but that is a topic for a different thread, because it adds nothing to issue addressed by this one.

Edit: That's spooky...Joat's post disappeared into thin air

 

[parrisw]

Awwwwwwwwww grasshopper there lies another assumtion, is the Brazil cylinder really cheaper, I don't know, do you? I doult very seriously with the amount of cylinders Stihl buys from Mahle they cost them a arm and leg. That was a good question though, sorry I can't answer it without some numbers, not assumtions.

You dance good.

I'll rephrase it then. Do you think its fair to install a lower quality cylinder and charge the same price?? And don't tell me its not lower quality.

 

[epicklein22]

Go to Ohio with pics of that cyliner and that tuff looking rod (show them THALLS gently coaxed rod, it doesn't have to be bent to look like cheap crap). Show them to the loggers without telling them the brand and ask them what they think.

You'd be a fool to argue that there is not a reason for loyalty to the Stihl brand. But you'd be an even bigger fool to hope that will be enough to get people to overlook shoddy workmanship and materials.

Ha, most if not all the pros would just take that cylinder and run it. No questions asked. It may not look pretty, but that isn't it's purpose. It is to perform effectively. We don't even know if this cylinder achieves that!!!

Would I like to see better craftsmanship? Yup, but if that saw performs like it should, those people will be lining up to buy another one.

Take that 076 you have. You seem to just love it. I have worked on/owned around 10 of them. They are tough, but lots can be improved. Heck, I had a cylinder that lost all the plating, must have been a Brazilian one. The muffler covers are cheap and break easily and the starter cover uses too small of bolts and strip out all the time. Not to mention the muffler baffles breaking all the time. To top it off, the whole thing vibrates loose all the time. You know why people over looked those problems? Because the 051/075/076 are dead reliable saws that get the job done! I don't doubt that 260 would do the same.

 

[epicklein22]

You don't have to wonder why, You know why. Because of quality products that would last. but, let the loggers, tree guys and landscapers find out how Stihl has put profit over quality , let them get some saws with junk cylinders, and see what happens to their loyality.:hmm3grin2orange:

Haven't heard one peep about Stihl quality from any of the dealers around here.

Like I said earlier, people aren't afraid to pay for the good stuff. Seems most are happy with what stihl offers.

You have to see it from the consumers point of view. Chainsaws are a tool, not a hobby or anything like that. If the product runs and works as it should, then most are happy as hell.

All of this doesn't make it ok for stihl to decrease their quality control, but people have blown this out of context thinking that the cylinder is just plain garbage that wouldn't even work. It might be, but we don't know because he wouldn't let someone run it!

Check my 064 to 066BB thread. My cylinder didn't look pretty, but that wouldn't stop me from buying another one because it runs strong.

 

[Jtheo]

Make it 13 by 1.25pm. Mostly trimmers and blowers. They are messing up my fun time Spike, gonna have to get ruff with these customers so I can come play, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,

WHAT?? Mostly trimmers and blowers?

:hmm3grin2orange:Man, the word got out fast on the chainsaws.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[edisto]

It may not look pretty, but that isn't it's purpose. It is to perform effectively. We don't even know if this cylinder achieves that!!!

So your argument is that there is no relationship between cylinder finish and cylinder performance? Looking pretty is not the issue, it looks like crap because it was made like crap.

Take that 076 you have. You seem to just love it.

Call me fickle, but if that 076 looks like that when I open it up I'll be shocked as hell, and will fall out of love pretty quickly.

 

[Jtheo]

Ha, most if not all the pros would just take that cylinder and run it. No questions asked. It may not look pretty, but that isn't it's purpose. It is to perform effectively. We don't even know if this cylinder achieves that!!!

Would I like to see better craftsmanship? Yup, but if that saw performs like it should, those people will be lining up to buy another one.

Take that 076 you have. You seem to just love it. I have worked on/owned around 10 of them. They are tough, but lots can be improved. Heck, I had a cylinder that lost all the plating, must have been a Brazilian one. The muffler covers are cheap and break easily and the starter cover uses too small of bolts and strip out all the time. Not to mention the muffler baffles breaking all the time. To top it off, the whole thing vibrates loose all the time. You know why people over looked those problems? Because the 051/075/076 are dead reliable saws that get the job done! I don't doubt that 260 would do the same.

Incredible!!!

or maybe Not credible!!! Not sure now. Oh well.:deadhorse:

 

[epicklein22]

So your argument is that there is no relationship between cylinder finish and cylinder performance? Looking pretty is not the issue, it looks like crap because it was made like crap.



Call me fickle, but if that 076 looks like that when I open it up I'll be shocked as hell, and will fall out of love pretty quickly.

Small casting flash and marks like Brad pointed out are a moot point for performance. All BB cylinders look like that. Port shape, blowdown, timing, compression, piston fit with the bore and rings. Those things are a lot more important. If you do some reading on porting, you will see some funny shaped ports, definitely not pretty, but the saws run good. If you ran a 260 with a mahle cylinder and one with the Brazilian cylinder, I bet you wouldn't notice a difference at all. Some argue that a polished exhaust does little for performance, if any. They do it anyways to prevent carbon build up. As for the intake, a rough finish is good for a tumbling affect of the charge. There was a chip on the plating, that was the worst problem. Luckily it wasn't where the piston will affect it. I would have failed it for that problem just to be safe. Other than that, that cylinder is gonna produce the power that Stihl advertises it to have.

 

[epicklein22]

Incredible!!!

or maybe Not credible!!! Not sure now. Oh well.:deadhorse:

Say what you want newbie. I have owned over 100 saws (all brands and colors) and done just about all you can do to a saw besides actually reworking the ports. I am gonna voice what I believe and have experienced. I hope you can do the same and actually uphold some integrity.

 

[Jtheo]

Say what you want newbie. I have owned over 100 saws (all brands and colors) and done just about all you can do to a saw besides actually reworking the ports. I am gonna voice what I believe and have experienced. I hope you can do the same and actually uphold some integrity.

What happened to the good natured fun here?

 

[edisto]

Small casting flash and marks like Brad pointed out are a moot point for performance. All BB cylinders look like that. If you do some reading on porting, you will see some funny shaped ports, definitely not pretty, but the saws run good.

I wasn't talking about casting flash...to reiterate:

Was that "chip" actually a speed divot? Is the uneven casting on the cooling fins a clever way to harness turbulent flow for more efficient cooling? Does chamfering only one side of a transfer actually improve scavenging? Does the lip on the intake produce resonant effects that stuff the crankcase with a high-pressure air-fuel mixture?

I have seen some "funny shaped ports", but they never struck me as poorly shaped ports. These definitely do.

As for the intake, a rough finish is good for a tumbling affect of the charge.

I'm no porting expert, but I sure know the flow difference between a rough finish and that finish. Rough is fine, as long as the surface is smooth apart from the finish. Divoting like that pictured as Brad creates BAD turbulence.

Maybe you should do some rereading...I'm going out to punch some speed holes in my hood with a pickaxe.