Did you know there was a modified work saw forum?

[THALL10326]

You know Thall, i'd like nothing better then to see the reasoning against mods on a saw from someone who actually knows both sides.

How about it?

Really, ok. I recently read a piece from one of the top engineers at Husqvarna. He made it quite simple. The faster it runs the faster it wears out. Same holds true for cars. GM once stated when you run a everyday car over a 100mph you just took 10,000 miles of life out of the engine. Modded saws gain in the cut how, by holding more rpm's in the cut, that is the only way it gains in cut times. Now take that and compare what GM said and the engineer at Husky said. Yes you gain speed but you sacrifice longivity to get it. Is it worth it is the question. To some maybe, to the majority I hardly doubt it. Each to their own but ignoring the facts don't change them.

I also think when the cylinder makers, all of them, lap nikisil around the edge of the ports they do so for a reason. If it didn't matter why do it. How can it be put back once its ground out, it can't. Does it matter, maybe, maybe not. Why pay for maybe's. I recently seen a brand new 372 hang a ring after modded, what was the real cause, nobody knows. Had it been left alone would it had hung up, not likely. A modding mistake made right, thats good, can't fault that at all. Doesn't change the fact though, she hung.

More to a saw than the top end. The bottom end is designed to handle a certain amount of stress. Raise the rpms you raise the stress on the bottom. Raise the compression you raise the stress on the lower rod bearing beyond what its designed to stand. Got that info from Stihl. I'm fairly certain they know abit more about stress than us so I take their word for it.

Most of what I'm saying can't be verified with modded saws. We know a well maintained saw can give 2000 hours of service. Most modded saws aren't used for serious work, mostly for play. I know of no arborist in my area that owns a modded saw, I know a few that laff at it the idea of it, they prefer to make money with their saw, not spend money on it to do a job it can already do.

Finally and foremost and not that I give a rip, its illegal on all new EPA certified saws. Thats the least of my concern but it is what it is.

I'm fairly certain I can get a whole lot more information about why its not such a great idea to alter your chainsaw. I have a huge source at my disposal but I'm not really interested in beating the subject to death. My jawing about it came from all the recent hell raising threads. We don't want this and we don't want that and thats fine but read into it closely these bomb throwing threads are all linked to what, modding. Doesn't bother me at all, let them ole boys fight. However when those fighting start whinning and running to the mods maybe its time to look closely at what the fighting is all about, tends to be the same subject over and over. Letem fight or get rid of the subject they are fussing over if its really that much of a pain, having it both ways just leads to more of what many claim they don't want.

Take note Scooter I never fuss at or argue with Brad in his build threads over how he does things, in fact I read em and never say a word. So I am not part of the problem, maybe I'm part of the solution, now isn't that a helluva note, I like watching them slug it out, they have been getting brutal of late though, yikes, good stuff, durn shame Darin is putting a stop to it, messes up my good reading,haha

 

[AUSSIE1]

The only good argument I've seen for it is 1. It's a chainsaw (broad stroke statement, no specifics) and 2. I want the attention. ( I want the most advertising exposure for free)

If someone wants to spend the money to get a saw modified they will find the modded work saw forum as there is no doubt there are people are confident their is enough people interested in it to make it a topic. But on the other hand they are saying that there won't be enough interest and the topic will die a slow death, which is it? I agree that anytime money changes hands whomever is involved, not just Brad, but anyone it becomes a business, it is no longer a hobby. When you become a sponsor, you are promoting a business, not a hobby.

Prolly 85% (just a guess) involve one modder. That's kind of sad in a way, because I'm sure they all have different methods, techniques etc. It's obvious they are getting enough business to make them happy without the exposure.

It's nothing personal, if they have a forum dedicated to the craft of modding saws use it. I plan on having my new 460 ported once wood season slows down and I can part with the saw, just to try one. You can bet I'll take a log and time a cut before it leaves and keep the exact same piece of wood and try it when it comes back to see what the gains are. Hopefully it will be significantly faster. If not no biggie, the modder won't hear one ##### or complaint, I went in with both eyes open.

My intent is not to push it off into a corner where it will disappear, but to plant a seed that will grow to be a productive forum with no or very little distraction to the posters.

Chainsaw not good enough? Bar oil and chains are not chainsaws!

Want the attention? Some show off new saws etc. Attention seeking?

The forum a slow death, not the topic of which we've seen with the seed planted some time ago hence modded saws posted in "chainsaws".

"collectors corner" doesn't get frequented like it should for the same reason as most in that category is posted under "chainsaws" but no one has an issue.

 

[TraditionalTool]

Really, ok. I recently read a piece from one of the top engineers at Husqvarna. He made it quite simple. The faster it runs the faster it wears out.

That certainly doesn't mean it's bad if it wears out faster, and not that I'm supporting modified saws either. I'll be very honest, I have modified a couple saws, but in the end I realized that I don't need to, it is just a tool. I have a little Echo 3450 I have been using, it's a wonderful saw for some of the work I'm doing. I don't run the saw WOT ever, and power is not an issue, I like the light weight of it.

I think your reply makes a lot of sense, and sure you will wear out a saw faster that is running faster, that's not rocket science. Even so, I slapped some rep on you cause it was a decent reply!

I think there are a number of people here that makes them believe their penis is bigger if they use a modded saw. And that's ok also, cause a lot of people like that feeling or they wouldn't keep doing it. More people should spend more time on sharpening their chain, cause even a modified saw with a dull chain ain't worth it's own salt.

 

[blsnelling]

There is the arguement that even if the modded saw lives a shorter life, it's still possible that it may have done the same or more amount of work, and therefore making the user more money. I've seen multiple pro users here say as much. It would be interesting to see them post up how long modded vs stock saws last.

 

[Ax-man]

That forum has been there for years . It may not see much action but it is a great place to use for searching and reference. Quick and easy without haveing to wade through a bunch worthless keywords in an unrelated post.

Let's not start crying to move it back to the regular chainsaw section. That is why it became a sub forum in the first place. A place all it's own for modding saws. I for one would like to see it stay that way. We have had enough change around here let's not get too radical.

 

[edisto]

You have a sub forum under "hotsaws" called "collectors corner" that should have it's own under "equipment forums".

Rid "hotsaws" of all the sub forums just like "chainsaws".

Rename it "modded saws" as you basically don't see race saws here at AS.

Move any threads with content regarding this topic from "chainsaws" to the "modded saws" forum.

Maybe it might work, maybe not. Give it wirl I spose.

That really sounds like a solid plan. Hell, I didn't even know about the collector's corner. I'd definitely like to see that!

 

[Cantdog]

Ok, It's taken me two "Dark and Stormy's" to read this entire thread in the middle of a snow storm and what I have learned is how divirsified the members of this site are. Thank you edisto, you asked a very simple question and the hounds grabbed the bone. The "weuns and the theyuns' are at it againLOLOL!! (not laughing at you guys, but with you)!!
I'll answer your question before I speak my mind. NO I did not know we had a sub forum entitled "modded work saws". I have been to the hot saw forum a few times but very slow and dull as I do not use or build car motor saws...bike motor saws or even crazy wild production race saws.

My interest is across the entire spectrum of usable work saws and some interest in a few antique, interesting saws.

Perhaps a modded work saw forum would work........perhaps it would just make these folks feel like sub members.... I think if this is what the mods would like, to move the saw mod threads out of the main forum, then it should have it's own seperate from any other forum. Plain fact the majority of modded saws seen on here are work saws not race saws and as such have much more in common with stock saws than any type of hot saw.

All in all I think things are fine the way they are.....how dull would all the oil threads, which saw should I buy now?, and how long a bar should I run? be if that's all there was on here. I mean we had a thread "sure is quiet in here...do I need to start a fight?" and this happens WITH the modded saw threads.....if you have no interest in a particular brand or mod just pass it by like any other that you have no interest in. Just because you are not interested does not in any way mean there are not others that are interested in it.......I mean is this not a chainsaw forum?? As far as some modders "advertising" their wares...as long as they sponsor this site with their interest and bucks...so what. Personally I have learned more than I would have thought possible in the last few yrs on this site and a lot was from asking questions and getting answers from some of these guys and not being treated like these answers were trade secrets and unavailable to mere civilians.

With all the infighting and bickering this is still the best place to discuss chainsaws. IMHO!!!!



One more thought......If we NEED another sub forum it should be put on by the powers that be and titled "We have decided to completely change the forum and here's how" So us simple folks know for instance that there is a "modded work saw forum" or there will be huge changes that we simply have to muddle our way through suddenly and bascilly figure out by ourselves. The similys you are used to now are at the very end of your choices etc.etc.etc Just a thought guysLOLOL!!!

 

[blsnelling]

The only good argument I've seen for it is 1. It's a chainsaw (broad stroke statement, no specifics) and 2. I want the attention. ( I want the most advertising exposure for free)

If someone wants to spend the money to get a saw modified they will find the modded work saw forum as there is no doubt there are people are confident their is enough people interested in it to make it a topic. But on the other hand they are saying that there won't be enough interest and the topic will die a slow death, which is it? I agree that anytime money changes hands whomever is involved, not just Brad, but anyone it becomes a business, it is no longer a hobby. When you become a sponsor, you are promoting a business, not a hobby.

Prolly 85% (just a guess) involve one modder. That's kind of sad in a way, because I'm sure they all have different methods, techniques etc. It's obvious they are getting enough business to make them happy without the exposure.

It's nothing personal, if they have a forum dedicated to the craft of modding saws use it. I plan on having my new 460 ported once wood season slows down and I can part with the saw, just to try one. You can bet I'll take a log and time a cut before it leaves and keep the exact same piece of wood and try it when it comes back to see what the gains are. Hopefully it will be significantly faster. If not no biggie, the modder won't hear one ##### or complaint, I went in with both eyes open.

My intent is not to push it off into a corner where it will disappear, but to plant a seed that will grow to be a productive forum with no or very little distraction to the posters.

You won't quit will you? You make personal attacks and then try to pretend it's not. Your motives are pretty obvious.

 

[TraditionalTool]

There is the arguement that even if the modded saw lives a shorter life, it's still possible that it may have done the same or more amount of work, and therefore making the user more money. I've seen multiple pro users here say as much. It would be interesting to see them post up how long modded vs stock saws last.

Brad,

Does it really even matter? Even if they say their saws are worth their weight in gold, doesn't make it so. I think there will be both sides of the fence on this one, some mod their saws and some don't.

Like you, I mod most everything I own, and love to take things apart...sometimes I even get them back together...lol but with Chainsaws I have realized that they will do fine without modifications and they will do fine without them.

For most of the work I do, the RPMs don't matter to me. I run most of my saws less than WOT, so where does that leave me? Am I less of a man because I don't run at WOT?

I know I could cut the fastest cookie with any given saw if it was modified, but I don't cut cookies very often...

That said, I'm not trying to put down folks that mod their saws, or that have you mod them for them, there is a huge community of people that will like those saws. Nothing beats a well tuned piece of equipment and a modified saw is typically tuned to it's best...

 

[edisto]

There is the arguement that even if the modded saw lives a shorter life, it's still possible that it may have done the same or more amount of work, and therefore making the user more money. I've seen multiple pro users here say as much. It would be interesting to see them post up how long modded vs stock saws last.

It's not a linear relationship in terms of the stress and wear. Small increases might keep it close to linear, but if you want it to run fast, you won't get as much work out of it.

I'm OK with that.

Upgrading to a larger P&C in the same chassis family will give the same longevity with more power, because the components are engineered for the biggest stresses in that family, but that's not the kind of modding we're talking about.

 

[sawinredneck]

I quoted THALL's post and started another thread, I felt that was a worthy topic, and no need to derail this fun.

 

[Slamm]

I had a modded 441 that ran hard logging for 3 years until I crushed the saw and now the piston and cylinder are on another 441 and running again. How much life do you want out of one? I wouldn't be caught dead with a slow stock saw. Stock 70cc saws suck to fall big hardwoods with.

We run modded 441's and now the guys don't want to run the modded 660's cause the modded 441's are so fast. We get a lot more wood cut, because the saws are lighter, faster and when compared to the larger more comparable modded 660's get much better gas mileage which lets us cut for longer times.

Possibly if the saw is modded by someone who does it wrong or with crappy workmanship than there are issues of reliability and workability, but an unchoked saw is a wonderful tool to drop trees with.

Edited Once:
I wanted to add that every saw in my sig is modded and has been for years and run in our logging business, and to date the only saw modd related problem I have had is one of the baddest, modded 660's would slip the clutch and I let a guy that didn't know that, use it and he burned up the clutch and crank and crank bearings, but holy cow did that thing run, LOL. Additionally, my saw builder also tried his magic on a 441 Big Bore and it literally blew the top off of the piston after 4 days of normal cutting, in my opinion this had less to do with actual modding practices and more to do with crappy weak aluminum pistons in the aftermarket world, as we have had zero engine related problems with modding. Some minor muffler related stuff, but that was after running both saws for 5 years without any problems until that muffler cracks. Thats it.

If production and efficiency are key to your operation then modded saws are the only way to go, the only thing that might stifle that is typical employees that don't give a crap about fine equipment and how to operate something in a more powerful form of itself. Modded saws will help you cut down more trees in a given day or week if you have the physical ability to run them at their max and get them from tree to tree quickly.

Edited Twice:

I got caught up in writing about my experience with modded saws and not the issue with the forums. I didn't know there was a Modded Saw Forum and I guess, I don't really care. Great idea, though, I get bored of reading about Huskies, but that doesn't mean I think we should separate the Chainsaw forum into Husky and Stihl, just because I like Stihl saws and hate Husky saws. I just choose to read different threads based on the title and the person who stated it.

I personally don't give a rip about learning how to modd saws because, I don't want to work on them, I just want them to run really, really hard when I pull the trigger. I don't make money working on saws, I make my money operating them. Just like truckers don't make money working on their trucks they make money driving them. That said, I don't mind if others talk about modding saws in their threads, as it is quite apparent that a huge percentage of us like to use them in modded form.

So to me, I don't think we need to go separating everything up just because it is possible to do so. I mean, I can see if the moderators move something because it will help the OP get a better answer to his question, but if it appears that everyone is enjoying the thread for pages on end, then what is the problem????????????????

That is my opinion, based on my experience with modded saws and logging,

Sam

 

[edisto]

You won't quit will you? You make personal attacks and then try to pretend it's not. Your motives are pretty obvious.

The man has raised some excellent points. You're welcome to address them, but save the "he hate me" crap for your own threads.

 

[blsnelling]

The man has raised some excellent points. You're welcome to address them, but save the "he hate me" crap for your own threads.

So now you're going to start with the crap now that someone else started it? That's just the thing. I've already addressed those same questions how many times now? If you cared about this forum like you say you do, you'd drop the crap.

 

[indiansprings]

Brad, there is nothing personal about it. What's inaccurate about it. I could care less if it is you or anyone else, bottom line all I'm saying is that the forum should be used or deleted. I do feel like a modded section on it's own would make a great place for those who like the topic. I'll be the first to admit, my position may be wrong, there is nothing wrong with you being the person posting the majority of the modding threads , don't take it personal, it's obvious you have a passion for it.
I will say the reason you make the majority of the post is you'll take the heat that comes along with it, I respect that. You stated it won't get the amount of attention it deserves. I haven't tried to make it personal and here you go and jump on me, i've honestly tried to keep it a debate with an open mind. It is sad that more modders don't post showing their techniques etc, I really enjoy TW's post, very informative, great data, not in anyway saying anyones the best modder.

I said early on I could agree to disagree if you could, please don't take it personal, it it offended you I apologize.

 

[blsnelling]

Who do you think you're fooling? You make personal attacks and then try to pretend you didn't. We're not the fools you try to make us out to be. BTW, to the both of you, modded saw threads were never an issue until you started trying to railroad me out of here. I suggest you take Darin's advise and drop it before he drops it for you.

 

[edisto]

Who do you think you're fooling? You make personal attacks and then try to pretend you didn't. We're not the fools you try to make us out to be. BTW, to the both of you, modded saw threads were never an issue until you started trying to railroad me out of here. I suggest you take Darin's advise and drop it before he drops it for you.

It certainly involves you Brad, because you post a lot of threads about modded saws, but it isn't about you. It's about the pros and cons of making better use of the modded work saw forum.

I didn't even know the thing existed, and I'd think you of all people would be interested in a saw mod forum if it took off. I think it has great potential, but if people don't think it will fly, so be it. I think shining more light on the collector saw forum would be a great thing too.

It has been a civil discussion, except for your recent outburst. I don't know Darin at all, but he seems like a reasonable person. Much too reasonable for you to be tossing his name around every time things don't go your way.

 

[indiansprings]

Brad, I was being sincere. I guess I haven't been around long enough to understand the whole modder wars saga. I have no desire to run you off.lol You make very valuable contributions to all members on a wide variety of topics, not trying to make anyone look like a fool. If this gets me kicked off so be it, I've got alot going on that's waymore important than a chainsaw forum. Again, I apologize if it offended you, that was not my intent in anyway, there's been enough name calling and getting way too personal on other threads. Just debating why the site would have a forum if it didn't intend members to use it, that's all.

 

[056kid]

Same here, why not use it?

(You come to me, not I come to you. .) is a big part of it I bet. .

 

[little possum]

My assumption was that it gets less traffic because not many people know about it. It certainly is a popular topic.

From my perspective, it's a simple matter of wanting to see more porting threads in the modded work saws forum, not less in the chainsaw forum. The reason is simple: anyone wanting to search for mods to a particular model of saw would get a useful return in that forum, and pages full of irrelevant threads in this forum.

It would be a more helpful forum in that regard. I think it's a cool forum to have, but I don't see why someone couldn't post in the main forum as well if they wanted a different target audience.

Lastly, I'll assume those that are suggesting this thread is off topic are joking. How is "did you know there is a place on AS dedicated to modifying chainsaws" off-topic in the AS chainsaw forum?

I do agree with your points on it being better to search/browse for saw specific threads.

And yes I was just joking.