Discovery channel's "extreme logging"

[slowp]

Here's what I'm learning:

There is always a "greenhorn" on tv.
The sun always shines.
The Greenhorn must prove himself.
There are no log truck drivers.
Am I missing anything?

Real life:

Nobody wants to hire a greenhorn.
It is pricipitating, or hot and dusty.
The log truck drivers will tell how everything has been done and how it should be done, and what is going to happen.

 

[forestryworks]

Here's what I'm learning:

There is always a "greenhorn" on tv.
The sun always shines.
The Greenhorn must prove himself.
There are no log truck drivers.
Am I missing anything?

Real life:

Nobody wants to hire a greenhorn.
It is pricipitating, or hot and dusty.
The log truck drivers will tell how everything has been done and how it should be done, and what is going to happen.

or 1 in 23 will hire a greenhorn... that's been my experience in calling that many... but given the current economic situation, it goes without saying?

 

[turnkey4099]

Waiting now for this week's episode "Helicopter Logging" - 11 pm here. It was on earlier but conflicted with wife's shows.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

WTH!! Have definitions changed? Show opened witht he blurb "Vancouver Islands forests are full of valuable hardwoods, Cedar and Hemlock..."

Called Cedar a hardwood later in the show again.

Anyhow it was interesting. Showed some falling of big sticks but not in the detail I would have preferred. Also showed ripping big cedar logs and the rate the chips piled up were impressive to say the least. Guessing at the saws they were using but 880?

Crew boss seems to be a bit quick on the trigger on deciding whether a newbie will work out.

Harry K

 

[arhillbilly]

yeah, i caught that too, always that cedar was softwood:jawdrop:

 

[STEVEGODSEYJR]

Guessing at the saws they were using but 880?

I thought they looked like big huskys...but I have been wrong before:greenchainsaw:

 

[slowp]

WTH!! Have definitions changed? Show opened witht he blurb "Vancouver Islands forests are full of valuable hardwoods, Cedar and Hemlock..."

Called Cedar a hardwood later in the show again.

Anyhow it was interesting. Showed some falling of big sticks but not in the detail I would have preferred. Also showed ripping big cedar logs and the rate the chips piled up were impressive to say the least. Guessing at the saws they were using but 880?

Crew boss seems to be a bit quick on the trigger on deciding whether a newbie will work out.

Harry K

That guy was a lot like the Type A+ guy up here who ran the helicopter business. They have to be that way because they have major expenses...major. I had a few "discussions" with him. The Northwest Forest Plan does not make changing locations of landings a quick thing to do. In fact it makes it a months long process if one is to be located outside the area that has been surveyed for all the little critters that we didn't used to know about. So, everybody was frustrated but we managed to make things work. So far.:deadhorse: We'll see how it goes when they return.

 

[forestryworks]

i saw 660's for sure... that cedar is really soft wood so you can run longer than 36"

there is a heli logging show that's on youtube (i'll post the link later) and there's a shot of a guy runnin' a 5ft bar on what looks like a 3120xp

 

[Ske-bum]

Quick question

Watching the helicopter edition of exteme logging, at the beginning of the show the type "A" guy said something about having trouble people that want to be timber fallers. Is this a true statement or is it possible he has trouble finding fallers that will work for him?

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Watching the helicopter edition of exteme logging, at the beginning of the show the type "A" guy said something about having trouble people that want to be timber fallers. Is this a true statement or is it possible he has trouble finding fallers that will work for him?

Nobody wants to do it anymore. Hard to find young guys who wanna work.

 

[Ske-bum]

Nobody wants to do it anymore. Hard to find young guys who wanna work.

Yeah, I wondered if that may be the issue, too bad a lot of peole like to go through life lazy and wonder why they can never afford anything.

Would those guys make a decent living?? They would have cool office at the very least.

 

[Jacob J.]

Yeah, I wondered if that may be the issue, too bad a lot of peole like to go through life lazy and wonder why they can never afford anything.

Would those guys make a decent living?? They would have cool office at the very least.

There's a couple of issues there. One of the big issues is finding steady work. Not a problem during fire season if it's a good fire season. Right now there's a lot of cutters out of work. It's not going to pick up anytime soon either.

Some of the companies I've cut for as an employee have had real problems hiring young guys- the most common being that they turn out to be either potheads or crackheads. A lot of the older guys are getting out of it, that's leaving a vacuum that's not being filled and the experience that's lost is invaluable.

Another problem (a more modern problem) is that young people either see these shows or hear about these jobs and get excited about them. Once they get out there, the cold, hard reality sets in and they realize that there's a lot of misery to endure and they bail.

My dad started cutting in 1967, and got out of it for good in 1995. He flat out told me to not become a cutter. He saw some hard times when the timber market took serious dumps in '78, '81, and '85.

 

[Ske-bum]

My dad started cutting in 1967, and got out of it for good in 1995. He flat out told me to not become a cutter. He saw some hard times when the timber market took serious dumps in '78, '81, and '85.

Yeah, I lived south of Seattle out in Enumclaw growing up and I remember a lot of hard times for some of the families that made their living in the woods during the late 70's early 80's.

Thanks for answering my questions guys. BTW, not thinking about going to work cutting got a really good gig and think I will stick with that.

 

[slowp]

For the LOCAL guys here, travel is the thing. There used to be steady logging in the surrounding National Forest but then the Spotted Owl problem hit. I've posted this before, but here are the "Operation Restrictions" that can be put in a contract, and lately it seems like every one of these gets in.
I'm doing this from memory, so there may be some errors. The seasonal restrictions are:
Jan 1 to ? Summer--Bald Eagle Nesting and feeding or whatever.
Feb. 28 to July 1--Spotted Owl Nesting
March to August--No logging due to sap rising in trees which makes scarring up the leave trees a problem. We waive this as long as the logger is careful.
October 1 to March--No ground operations because of wet soils. This can be waived too.
December 1 to April 30--Winter range, can't make noise.
March to June something--Elk calving.

So, the free months to log are July, August and September. Guess when Fire Danger is at the worst? We have shutdowns for that.

So, the fallers have to travel to find work, and can't even find work now if they travel. It is hard work, and not steady. Had a conversation with one of the better local guys last week when we were waiting for the wind to die. He was driving a total of 6 hours to cut for 6 hours when he couldn't work. locally. He is one of the guys who has a good rep so he can usually find work. Not an easy job at all.

 

[Gologit]

There's a couple of issues there. One of the big issues is finding steady work. Not a problem during fire season if it's a good fire season. Right now there's a lot of cutters out of work. It's not going to pick up anytime soon either.

Some of the companies I've cut for as an employee have had real problems hiring young guys- the most common being that they turn out to be either potheads or crackheads. A lot of the older guys are getting out of it, that's leaving a vacuum that's not being filled and the experience that's lost is invaluable.

Another problem (a more modern problem) is that young people either see these shows or hear about these jobs and get excited about them. Once they get out there, the cold, hard reality sets in and they realize that there's a lot of misery to endure and they bail.

My dad started cutting in 1967, and got out of it for good in 1995. He flat out told me to not become a cutter. He saw some hard times when the timber market took serious dumps in '78, '81, and '85.

Well said.

 

[Bushler]

I started cutting in 1967 too. Still get it wrong sometimes, but its the best job in the woods.

 

[Burvol]

There's a couple of issues there. One of the big issues is finding steady work. Not a problem during fire season if it's a good fire season. Right now there's a lot of cutters out of work. It's not going to pick up anytime soon either.

Some of the companies I've cut for as an employee have had real problems hiring young guys- the most common being that they turn out to be either potheads or crackheads. A lot of the older guys are getting out of it, that's leaving a vacuum that's not being filled and the experience that's lost is invaluable.

Another problem (a more modern problem) is that young people either see these shows or hear about these jobs and get excited about them. Once they get out there, the cold, hard reality sets in and they realize that there's a lot of misery to endure and they bail.

My dad started cutting in 1967, and got out of it for good in 1995. He flat out told me to not become a cutter. He saw some hard times when the timber market took serious dumps in '78, '81, and '85.

Yes, it is hard to get started in the woods. I was told to come to work as a bucker one day by Dad. "Can you come tommorrow?" I was working with a local tree service, doing removals and trims, but mostly removals. I grew up with a power saw, bumping knots for my Dad and setting chokers here and there. He had a decent outfit going while I was a kid. I think he saw potential in me and got me started. A few weeks later I was cutting a little bit. Bit by bit, I cut with him then got my own wood. As my own man I can see how it would be hard to hire a kid. There is some stuff that you have to just have to cut timber. The biggest ones I can think of or see is either the moxy and balls to do it (all of it no matter what it is) and the calm thinking under pressure. If you get all ruffled cutting timber a lot it's not going to work out for you, sh!t goes from bad to catostrophic in a blink of an eye when you panic out.

Lastly, it's a lifestyle...plain and simple. Waking up at 2-3 in the morning 6 months out of the year, grinding chains at night, saw work, thousands of dollars in the saw shop, greasing and changing calks constantly, scale books for some, thousands and thousands of miles, (Gotta love that Sirius, thank God) Rain, snow, sleet, heat, cold, ect, pressure to produce wood, and all of the other stuff that doesn't come to mind right now.

As a faller you are in your own world. The games you play are all in your head. A set of ear plugs in all day will make you think a lot (if there's really anything in there), so what you do to prepare for your next move mentally is very important. We all make mistakes, but being able to cut without making a big mistake is KEY. It sets you back, it can get in your head, and it flat breaks your rithym. Watch a good log cutter, he is constant. Steady. Not flying around like a damn chicken with no head, but just grinding it out until the day is done. You do that and there will be a wall of butts piled up.

I think I got side tracked here, sorry. But Jacob J. said it best a long time ago, and I don't remember what it all was, but the last thing in his post was that you don't end up with much. That's true, but I think he just forgot to say the memories and the identity of a faller.

 

[forestryworks]

Yes, it is hard to get started in the woods. I was told to come to work as a bucker one day by Dad. "Can you come tommorrow?" I was working with a local tree service, doing removals and trims, but mostly removals. I grew up with a power saw, bumping knots for my Dad and setting chokers here and there. He had a decent outfit going while I was a kid. I think he saw potential in me and got me started. A few weeks later I was cutting a little bit. Bit by bit, I cut with him then got my own wood. As my own man I can see how it would be hard to hire a kid. There is some stuff that you have to just have to cut timber. The biggest ones I can think of or see is either the moxy and balls to do it (all of it no matter what it is) and the calm thinking under pressure. If you get all ruffled cutting timber a lot it's not going to work out for you, sh!t goes from bad to catostrophic in a blink of an eye when you panic out.

Lastly, it's a lifestyle...plain and simple. Waking up at 2-3 in the morning 6 months out of the year, grinding chains at night, saw work, thousands of dollars in the saw shop, greasing and changing calks constantly, scale books for some, thousands and thousands of miles, (Gotta love that Sirius, thank God) Rain, snow, sleet, heat, cold, ect, pressure to produce wood, and all of the other stuff that doesn't come to mind right now.

As a faller you are in your own world. The games you play are all in your head. A set of ear plugs in all day will make you think a lot (if there's really anything in there), so what you do to prepare for your next move mentally is very important. We all make mistakes, but being able to cut without making a big mistake is KEY. It sets you back, it can get in your head, and it flat breaks your rithym. Watch a good log cutter, he is constant. Steady. Not flying around like a damn chicken with no head, but just grinding it out until the day is done. You do that and there will be a wall of butts piled up.

I think I got side tracked here, sorry. But Jacob J. said it best a long time ago, and I don't remember what it all was, but the last thing in his post was that you don't end up with much. That's true, but I think he just forgot to say the memories and the identity of a faller.

good post, thanks

 

[Humptulips]

For the LOCAL guys here, travel is the thing. There used to be steady logging in the surrounding National Forest but then the Spotted Owl problem hit. I've posted this before, but here are the "Operation Restrictions" that can be put in a contract, and lately it seems like every one of these gets in.
I'm doing this from memory, so there may be some errors. The seasonal restrictions are:
Jan 1 to ? Summer--Bald Eagle Nesting and feeding or whatever.
Feb. 28 to July 1--Spotted Owl Nesting
March to August--No logging due to sap rising in trees which makes scarring up the leave trees a problem. We waive this as long as the logger is careful.
October 1 to March--No ground operations because of wet soils. This can be waived too.
December 1 to April 30--Winter range, can't make noise.
March to June something--Elk calving.



So, the free months to log are July, August and September. Guess when Fire Danger is at the worst? We have shutdowns for that.

So, the fallers have to travel to find work, and can't even find work now if they travel. It is hard work, and not steady. Had a conversation with one of the better local guys last week when we were waiting for the wind to die. He was driving a total of 6 hours to cut for 6 hours when he couldn't work. locally. He is one of the guys who has a good rep so he can usually find work. Not an easy job at all.

You forgot Marbeled Murrelet restrictions. No equipment including saws between March 1st and July 15th.

 

[Jacob J.]

I started cutting in 1967 too. Still get it wrong sometimes, but its the best job in the woods.

I have to agree. I've had some good times firefighting and cutting timber both, and I think working the fires is helping a lot of cutting contractors make a real good living. I think I saw at least 80 different fallers on the line this year.

I think I got side tracked here, sorry. But Jacob J. said it best a long time ago, and I don't remember what it all was, but the last thing in his post was that you don't end up with much. That's true, but I think he just forgot to say the memories and the identity of a faller.

Yeah I'm totally with you on that, and I was reminded BIG TIME of that today- I drove up to this old boy's house just west of Gaston, Oregon. I was there to buy an old saw and I got to sit with the old boy's son for a while and shoot the ****. This guy started working in the woods in 1928 when he was 15, he's 95 now and still going strong. He logged until he was 72. In addition to being a cutter, he was a Disston and Power Machinery dealer from the late '40s until the late '50s. He'd go out and put in his six hours and then rush back to the shop and grind chains and repair saws until 7-8 at night. This guy was flat-out amazing. His stories rocked my world. Driving home I didn't think at all about the old saw he sold me, I thought about cutting timber in the early days when times were real hard.

Another old boy that would flat out rock anyone's world is my grandpa. He started cutting in 1940, took four years off for WW2, then went right back to it, until he stopped cutting in 1971. Then he started working as a heavy diesel mechanic and driver until he retired in 2003. Then in '05 he went back to cutting at age 81 with his new modded MS-361, and was out-cutting me!