Do we REALLY want regulatory control?

[BC WetCoast]

Just curious on how many non-regulators would go see a doctor who is not board-certified, Hire a lawyer who hasn't been called to the bar, or have a guy who can read engineering tables design their skyscraper?

 

[clearance]

Just curious on how many non-regulators would go see a doctor who is not board-certified, Hire a lawyer who hasn't been called to the bar, or have a guy who can't read engineering tables design their skyscraper?

Or get an arborist who hasn't climbed a tree or ran a saw....... Now, cutting down trees around powerlines, well, thats another kettle of fish.

 

[treevet]

Ya cut em in a way that you don't get electrocuted?

 

[clearance]

Ya cut em in a way that you don't get electrocuted?

So far, lol.

 

[Bermie]

Or get an arborist who hasn't climbed a tree or ran a saw....... .

Damn straight skippy...CA's should have tree climber specialist as well, even if they never actually climb another tree, at least they'd have an understanding.

 

[outofmytree]

Damn straight skippy...CA's should have tree climber specialist as well, even if they never actually climb another tree, at least they'd have an understanding.

Amen.

 

[lxt]

Wow..others & I have preached many of these points regarding the CA credential.......ISA wont change cuz then the tree climber specialist cert. would be entailed within the CA cert & $$$ would be lost?????? & hats off to the poster recognizing that ISA & TCIA could insteed of going to Hawaii & other lavish areas for conferences & such....spend those moneys on promoting!!

I understand why Treeco said hell with ISA....I got my CA cause alot of contracts with the park service require it & I bid & get those....BUT, they dont promote us or enforce standards, they come across as a necessity for our trade but they are not & to boot.....everything is about Money, while ISA grows off our membership the only thing I see them really doing!....Is having more lavish getaways while creating more $$$$ making certification programs

Unions represent there members better than this & they are basically a tax to work..........ISA, doesnt really do much for their membership on the levels we need them to. Untill this happens.....it`ll be the same!






LXT.................

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Damn straight skippy...CA's should have tree climber specialist as well, even if they never actually climb another tree, at least they'd have an understanding.

Arborist and climber are like rectangle and square, the latter is the former, but the former is not necessarily the latter. Why should a lab researcher show the same competency as a for-hire practitioner?

 

[lxt]

Arborist and climber are like rectangle and square, the latter is the former, but the former is not necessarily the latter. Why should a lab researcher show the same competency as a for-hire practitioner?

Thats funny, The NAA back in the day required such!! & that was a respected organization with a title of CA that held merit & respect, not that way now with the ISA!!

The credentials have been watered down & more put in place to bring in a larger group of people, ultimately for more money!!! lessen the requirements, obtain a larger membership base, create more credentials....MAKE MORE MONEY!!!..........then drink margaritas in hawaii off the dues of the members! LOL...



LXT...........

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

NAA, now TCIA is the industry advocacy organization, the ISA is more intellectual made up of all types of people who work with trees.

I would like to see more nurserymen as CA's, why should they have to climb?

How about a 50 year old female phd who specializes in roots?

I would not want to try to put Kim Coder in a tree these days!

 

[Bermie]

NAA, now TCIA is the industry advocacy organization, the ISA is more intellectual made up of all types of people who work with trees.

I would like to see more nurserymen as CA's, why should they have to climb?

How about a 50 year old female phd who specializes in roots?

I would not want to try to put Kim Coder in a tree these days!

Ok, JPS. you do have a valid point there, and I agree there would be people who could or would never climb, but need a knowledge certification.

I guess some of my frustration comes from being a climbing arborist, I realize there are tree specialists out there who do not climb, and they hold a depth of knowledge far and away beyond what we are talking about... but to me the term arborist encompasses the whole gamut, knowledge and practical competence. (thats just the way I feel!)

For someone to get a certification that designates only an attained knowledge base, and a pretty basic one at that...maybe it should be called something else, something that makes it clear it is a knowledge only designation...then when, and if necessary, someone collects both parts, knowledge and competence, THEN they could be called a Certified Arborist.

 

[treevet]

Ok, JPS. you do have a valid point there, and I agree there would be people who could or would never climb, but need a knowledge certification.

I guess some of my frustration comes from being a climbing arborist, I realize there are tree specialists out there who do not climb, and they hold a depth of knowledge far and away beyond what we are talking about... but to me the term arborist encompasses the whole gamut, knowledge and practical competence. (thats just the way I feel!)

For someone to get a certification that designates only an attained knowledge base, and a pretty basic one at that...maybe it should be called something else, something that makes it clear it is a knowledge only designation...then when, and if necessary, someone collects both parts, knowledge and competence, THEN they could be called a Certified Arborist.

The whole genius in the set up is the ceu's. The org is destined to break up into more and more specialists as now there is BCMA, Muni, and Utility. Expect more to come I would expect. You have the entry knowledge recognized and then you are free to get your credits in any area and eventually you will be a specialist in that niche. I wish they would acknowledge the number of times you have re certed so the buyer would have an idea of how many credits times 30 you have attained. Be real simple by adding it to your cert number.

 

[lxt]

First off nurserymen have an association, I wonder how TCIA would feel about ISA being called the intellectual counterpart!

LOL, why would a 50yr old female with a PHD.....care to have an Arborist certification?.......really!! that makes no sense to want a lesser "pigskin" when you`ve obtained the ultimate!!

Yes........climbing should be mandatory for CA`s!! sorry, the safety aspects of this more than suggest such!!

I hardly think the genuis of the ISA is the CEU`s, yes they`re gonna add more Certs........certs=$$$$$!. personally I`d rather see the main exam be retaken every three years....not the same one! in other words you took the entry level exam.....3years later you are prompted on what exam you will need to take, buy the book, study, pay cert fee & thats it....kinda like college courses...you have core classes & electives...make the Arborist news quizzes electives! then rank or rate the individuals certification based on that!!

personally the general public wont give a crap!!


LXT.............

 

[fishercat]

sorry for jumping all over you JPS.

you think another branch of government is going to stop them?

it's already regulated here in Connecticut.you need an arborist license with the state to prune and/or trim.the lawnmower guys still do it without a care in the world.

there will always be customers who don't care because they know if they hire someone with an abrorist license is going to charge more than Jose's lawn service.i don't see what you are accomplishing.you are never going to stop hacks.you can't legislate morality,it's never happened and never will.if you think it will,you're dreaming.

i understand though that you believe government is the answer for everything. when you find something they have fixed,be sure to let me know.

i thought i was replying to Treeco. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Rftreeman]

Regulation is not the answer, education is............:hmm3grin2orange:

Landscapers will ALWAYS do tree work but is there really anything wrong with that if they know both industries......

There will always be some idiot that gets hurt or killed......

There will always be someone that will do it cheaper......

The ISA could care less about you or this industry, all they want is your money.........

There most likely would be new taxes added to the many we already pay to fund this "regulation" that would be useless to keep the "low bidders" out, it would only help them because they don't pay taxes anyway.....


That's how I see it.........

 

[Bearcreek]

Just curious on how many non-regulators would go see a doctor who is not board-certified, Hire a lawyer who hasn't been called to the bar, or have a guy who can read engineering tables design their skyscraper?

I've heard this analogy before. First of all, all of the jobs you mentioned require far more knowledge and education than is needed to perform the vast majority of tree work. Secondly, yes, people should be able to choose their own doctors, lawyers and architects without government interference.

 

[treevet]

I've heard this analogy before. First of all, all of the jobs you mentioned require far more knowledge and education than is needed to perform the vast majority of tree work. Secondly, yes, people should be able to choose their own doctors, lawyers and architects without government interference.

How about without credentials?

Also how many species of human beings do doctors deal with?

How many species of trees do arborists deal with?

 

[IcePick]

Personally I don't care about regulation or not. The hacks will never be stopped, and like some guys have already said, people have a right to pay for poor quality tree work if they're so inclined.

My main concern is that I don't make near enough money that I should, considering I climb EVERYDAY...hazard removals, crown cleans, technical riggings...you name it.

Working for a company, I'm more interested in pushing for higher wages, better benefits, and no way in hell is ISA or TCIA going to make that a reality for me.

Prolly some of you are thinking "hey dipsh.t, you could probably make a better wage if the industry was regulated" but I just don't see that happening as well.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the ISA an organization run by its members? There isn't some individual who gets the dollars earned through registrations.

If you don't like the way the ISA is run, then, like the government, step up and run for an elected position. It's easier to make changes from the inside.

Staff, the bureaucracy, answers to the Board of Directors. Don't like how staff operates, get on the Board and change it.

I learned this lesson first hand when I was much younger. I was sitting on the Board of Trustees for the local library. After a while, the Chief Librarian was considered to be doing an inadequate job. Gone.

 

[fishercat]

as for me,

I've heard this analogy before. First of all, all of the jobs you mentioned require far more knowledge and education than is needed to perform the vast majority of tree work. Secondly, yes, people should be able to choose their own doctors, lawyers and architects without government interference.

no problem going to a doctor who isn't part of the system if he had good references."the bar" is the problem with lawyers.

i can't afford a skyscraper. probably never will be able to.