Do we REALLY want regulatory control?

[Bearcreek]

How about without credentials?

Also how many species of human beings do doctors deal with?

How many species of trees do arborists deal with?

Yes, without credentials, if folks are so inclined. Besides, having credentials and using them to give customers confidence that you know what you're doing is a whole different thing than the government telling the customers they can't hire you without them. I have no problem with the ISA offering certifications and using that as a marketing tool. I have no problem with organizations requiring contractors who submit bids to be certified. What I do have a problem with is the government, at any level, deciding who is and who is not qualified to work on trees. That decision should be the landowner's. And yes, doctors do work on one species (unless they're a veterinary doctor), but I still think their work takes more education and knowledge than ours. If I screw up a prune job, the worst that can happen, usually, is the tree dies and has to be removed. If a doctor screws up a heart surgery, the patient could die. I believe his patient's life is a hell of a lot more important than my patient's.

 

[treevet]

Yes, without credentials, if folks are so inclined. Besides, having credentials and using them to give customers confidence that you know what you're doing is a whole different thing than the government telling the customers they can't hire you without them. I have no problem with the ISA offering certifications and using that as a marketing tool. I have no problem with organizations requiring contractors who submit bids to be certified. What I do have a problem with is the government, at any level, deciding who is and who is not qualified to work on trees. That decision should be the landowner's. And yes, doctors do work on one species (unless they're a veterinary doctor), but I still think their work takes more education and knowledge than ours. If I screw up a prune job, the worst that can happen, usually, is the tree dies and has to be removed. If a doctor screws up a heart surgery, the patient could die. I believe his patient's life is a hell of a lot more important than my patient's.

What if you were to hack your trees all to hell, top cuts, flush cuts, rip cuts, spike wounds all over. The tree doesn't die but decay sets in all over and one day your ;mom is unloading the groceries and the whole works comes down on her and her station wagon?

 

[Bermie]

Well, regulation is about to come to Bermuda...
The Government has just listed Horticulture as an occupation for which you must be licenced...they started with welders, auto mechanics and electricians last year. Arboriculture will come under that heading of Horticulture.

I happen to to be on the occupation advisory committee, have been involved with training and education for the last 13 years...so here we FINALLY go!
FWIW the committee includes representatives from across the industry, and the standards will be set by them, NOT the Government...

 

[outofmytree]

Well, regulation is about to come to Bermuda...
The Government has just listed Horticulture as an occupation for which you must be licenced...they started with welders, auto mechanics and electricians last year. Arboriculture will come under that heading of Horticulture.

I happen to to be on the occupation advisory committee, have been involved with training and education for the last 13 years...so here we FINALLY go!
FWIW the committee includes representatives from across the industry, and the standards will be set by them, NOT the Government...

That sounds great. I will be interested in the methodology of regulation and enforcement that your committee comes up with. I often wondered why it wasn't applied on multiple levels. For example, buy a chainsaw, show your chainsaw ticket, insure your business, show your business certified to OHS standards, put in a written quote, include your license number and so on.

This is a good start run at a state level here.

This license must be carried at all times on major worksites and covers 29 jobs like rigging, dogging, crane driving, EWP operation and so on. Cost me under $20 per annum. Add felling and aerial pruning to that list and you have a ready made arborists license. Not the company being licensed that is, but the individual. So no using someone elses dodgy building license to sell your work, you the person working on the tree must have the ticket.

Ah well. I can but hope.

 

[treevet]

shoulda asked if the lic. #....007 was taken yet Doc.

 

[outofmytree]

:hmm3grin2orange: Reckon.

 

[Grace Tree]

Different country, different culture. If I needed a card to buy a chainsaw I'd find somewhere else to live; in a hurry.
Phil

 

[treevet]

5 minutes ago I have the police and the fire department at my door. Some moron passerby calls in and says my house is on fire. I heat my house with wood. If they pass a law that you cannot burn wood in my town I am out of here as well.

Not 5 minutes prior to that the dogs are barking like crazy at the front door. I go up stairs and look out there and some lady walking a dog and another person is up the hill, up the yard stairs fussing with Christmas lights on my yard light. I know it is late to keep up Christmas stuff, but it isn't against the law.

Wanted to let the dogs out to chase them but then I gotta worry about law suits.

Laws, laws, laws, uptight people.

 

[Grace Tree]

5 minutes ago I have the police and the fire department at my door. Some moron passerby calls in and says my house is on fire. I heat my house with wood. If they pass a law that you cannot burn wood in my town I am out of here as well.

Not 5 minutes prior to that the dogs are barking like crazy at the front door. I go up stairs and look out there and some lady walking a dog and another person is up the hill, up the yard stairs fussing with Christmas lights on my yard light. I know it is late to keep up Christmas stuff, but it isn't against the law.

Wanted to let the dogs out to chase them but then I gotta worry about law suits.

Laws, laws, laws, uptight people.

I hear you. a couple of years ago the doorbell rings and there's a cop at my front door. He said, "there's smoke coming out of your chimney." I didn't know what to say. He told me that someone had called it in because they thought it was too warm a day to have a fire. Idiots.
Phil

 

[treevet]

I have been burning for about 35 years. In the morning I burn it hot to warm up the house but also to burn out the creosote in the chimney. Then you have to bank it down or you probably would have a fire. This gives a brief burst of dark smoke.

If they have to call with some perceived emergency all the cops have to do is call your house, they have all the numbers, and you can stop 3 trucks and 3 cop cars from being in front of your house.

The call was "a structure on fire". Plain as day the smoke was coming out of the chimney. I guess one of 2 ways of looking at is "they were doing us a big favor".

 

[Bearcreek]

What if you were to hack your trees all to hell, top cuts, flush cuts, rip cuts, spike wounds all over. The tree doesn't die but decay sets in all over and one day your ;mom is unloading the groceries and the whole works comes down on her and her station wagon?

Sure, I don't want my mom getting killed by an improperly pruned tree. I also don't want her dieing of a heart attack. Therefore I think the government should set up a system where each person has to have quarterly physicals and anyone who doesn't pass is not allowed to have an ice cream and chocolate buying permit. Crazy, right? But, it's far more likely that she'll die of a heart attack because of bad diet than die by getting hit by a badly pruned tree. She's more likely to get killed by a branch while hiking in the woods where the trees aren't pruned at all. That's not a good reason for government regulations.

 

[treevet]

Not sure what you mean by "burn out the creosote in the chimney". When creosote gets burned out in a chimney it's called a chimney fire...and chimney fires of all types are bad news..... they damage flue tiles and metal chimneys. Sounds like 'old school' wood heating. LOL!

Cooking it out may be a better term....anyway don't knock "old school" ....it got to be old school for a reason.....it worked.

"damage flue tiles and metal chimneys" ? pishposh

 

[treevet]

Sure, I don't want my mom getting killed by an improperly pruned tree. I also don't want her dieing of a heart attack. Therefore I think the government should set up a system where each person has to have quarterly physicals and anyone who doesn't pass is not allowed to have an ice cream and chocolate buying permit. Crazy, right? But, it's far more likely that she'll die of a heart attack because of bad diet than die by getting hit by a badly pruned tree. She's more likely to get killed by a branch while hiking in the woods where the trees aren't pruned at all. That's not a good reason for government regulations.

I think we are on the same side of the fence and keep arguing....I am not for govt regs but rather credentials and let the buyer decide.

 

[Grace Tree]

Everyone around here cooks out the chimney from time to time. 8000 Amish can't be wrong.
Phil

 

[lxt]

That sounds great. I will be interested in the methodology of regulation and enforcement that your committee comes up with. I often wondered why it wasn't applied on multiple levels. For example, buy a chainsaw, show your chainsaw ticket, insure your business, show your business certified to OHS standards, put in a written quote, include your license number and so on.

This is a good start run at a state level here.

This license must be carried at all times on major worksites and covers 29 jobs like rigging, dogging, crane driving, EWP operation and so on. Cost me under $20 per annum. Add felling and aerial pruning to that list and you have a ready made arborists license. Not the company being licensed that is, but the individual. So no using someone elses dodgy building license to sell your work, you the person working on the tree must have the ticket.

Ah well. I can but hope.

God help us if this is ever put into law, how absolutely f:censored:ing stupid this is!! chainsaw ticket??? what? this is taking it way too far, what next?......snow blower license, how about a "child bearing" license?

Regulate our industry? It needs something, but nothing this absurd! Australia has an anti gun law too, dont they? try passing that here in the US!

Setting up a standard of betterment for our trade is a good thing but middle ground must be found, even though we complain about hacks...they still must be given time to adjust!

IMHO regulations never work cuz someone always corrupts the system especially at the state & federal levels, put the burden on the consumer....after all they are the ones who complain! they werent complaining when ole billy bob undercut the competition by hundreds of $$$, heres the problem!!

Ho`s want the cheapest price & the best work not realizing that is not the case most of the time, then when their $75 lawn guy pruning looks like crap smear on an oak leaf they wanna cry foul!!! who really is a fault for low quality workmanship?....thats where it has to start!!


LXT..............

 

[treevet]

Hopefully you are better informed about trees than you are about wood heat!

Come on over if you ever in Cinci. I'll teach you a little of both.

Like every year this fall cleaned out my chimney and flue and got a small bathroom size garb can of creosote. Burned about 6 or 7 cords last year.

 

[lxt]

Sure, I don't want my mom getting killed by an improperly pruned tree. I also don't want her dieing of a heart attack. Therefore I think the government should set up a system where each person has to have quarterly physicals and anyone who doesn't pass is not allowed to have an ice cream and chocolate buying permit. Crazy, right? But, it's far more likely that she'll die of a heart attack because of bad diet than die by getting hit by a badly pruned tree. She's more likely to get killed by a branch while hiking in the woods where the trees aren't pruned at all. That's not a good reason for government regulations.

Nice reply Bearcreek!

C`mon treevet, what`s the statistics of death by bad pruning drop out? LMFAO!!!!!! if anything that would be a freak accident & honestly the person struck.....well it was their time to go!

Regulation in the sense some of you are talking about would even drive you outta biz, be careful what ya wish for! what if the regulation said person must show professional training & have 5yrs field experience by an established recognized biz????? what if the Big companies are looked to for establishing the regulations?

you think they`re gonna help you or help solidify a better hold in this economy for themselves? Regulation as some are stating will just be another money grab for local, state or federal!!...........



LXT.........

 

[Live Oak]

God help us if this is ever put into law, how absolutely f:censored:ing stupid this is!! chainsaw ticket??? what? this is taking it way too far, what next?......snow blower license, how about a "child bearing" license?

Regulate our industry? It needs something, but nothing this absurd! Australia has an anti gun law too, dont they? try passing that here in the US!

Setting up a standard of betterment for our trade is a good thing but middle ground must be found, even though we complain about hacks...they still must be given time to adjust!

IMHO regulations never work cuz someone always corrupts the system especially at the state & federal levels, put the burden on the consumer....after all they are the ones who complain! they werent complaining when ole billy bob undercut the competition by hundreds of $$$, heres the problem!!

Ho`s want the cheapest price & the best work not realizing that is not the case most of the time, then when their $75 lawn guy pruning looks like crap smear on an oak leaf they wanna cry foul!!! who really is a fault for low quality workmanship?....thats where it has to start!!


LXT..............

It is my opinion that states should have licensing boards with a legislatively passed criterium list to adhere to. Governor in MI took discretion away from the ccw gun boards & gave them a list. now anyone in MI would receive a permit to carry simply by meeting the criteria on that list. I also believe that a gov. website having certified tree guys would be beneficial; say (county by county). The industry definitely has a lot of bad business being done each day on the part of owners. I see it in MI weekly.

 

[treevet]

I burned about five cords and get about a pint per year.

I think we are both playing the game the right way.

 

[treevet]

Nice reply Bearcreek!

C`mon treevet, what`s the statistics of death by bad pruning drop out? LMFAO!!!!!! if anything that would be a freak accident & honestly the person struck.....well it was their time to go!

Regulation in the sense some of you are talking about would even drive you outta biz, be careful what ya wish for! what if the regulation said person must show professional training & have 5yrs field experience by an established recognized biz????? what if the Big companies are looked to for establishing the regulations?

you think they`re gonna help you or help solidify a better hold in this economy for themselves? Regulation as some are stating will just be another money grab for local, state or federal!!...........



LXT.........

You are always scared to death "somebody is doing a "MONEY GRAB" on your money" lol.

My guess is you don't have much money to grab and that is why you think everyone is after your last little bits.

You gotta spend money to make money. Don't let your cert. lapse if you haven't already. You will be sorry you did.

And yeah, you're right ofcourse, nobody should EVER worry about any tree falling on anyone hahahahahahah