do you know what you're doing?

[murphy4trees]

I plowed snow two winters ago for a homeowner of a $million+ house... We talked about pruning a row of overmature sugar maples by the street.... One should probably be removed... and 4 or 5 others pruned, and possibly a few cables... I would have probably brought in Big Jon to do the climbing....
So the customer asks me "do you know what you're doing"?
I tell him about progressive pruning techniques etc... He seemed unimpressed...
So I drive by the other day and see a lanscraping company truck and chipper out front..... The climber was working of spikes, tied in in the middle of the tree, about 10' above his work, no PPE, one handing the saw, taking 4-10" limbs off left and right...
That's the kind of scene that makes me think I should get certified... and have some brochure or other sales materials to distinguish my work from the hacks...
And the customer probably thought he did a good job..

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

We all run into it now and then. One of the funniest for me is when the neighbor comes over and tells me I'm doing it wrong because she had some cityboy or ROW worker come in and raise her trees for cheap. Not only am I wrong, but I'm ripping off her neighbor.

I've run into this type of person 3 or 4 times.

The cert will help, as would a college degree.

I usually say I study my profession, say I don't climb with spikes and try to work with in the growth requirements and charicteristics of the tree. It's been a few years since I've really given that schpeal to someone who is not a tree person.

 

[Koa Man]

Don't most homeowners take just a brief glance at the tree and a hard look at the ground? If the ground clean up is good, then you did a good job....especially if they see a lot was cut off the tree. More for their money.

 

[BigJohn]

I like it when the home owner comes out looks at the tree and wants to know what you did and says it doesn't look like you did anything. Meanwhile you point a pile a brush that would make a half load of chips. They can't seem to believe all that came out a tree that looks the "same" I think some people expect the trees to look hacked and unapealing. Depending on my mood I may offer to go up and make it look like Asplundh just came through for a 34 three phase.

 

[UNBforester]

Here's something to think about. We as a profession are constantly trying to show that we "know what we are doing". College degrees can help and certification could be a big asset but...the majority of homeowners have no concept of ISA certification and what it does to promote proper tree pruning. Some homeowners prefer the lower bids or they may even trust a hack with 30 years experience versus a young arborist with certification under his belt. Eventually it boils down to price and salemanship.

So here's my big question for the day. What is the ISA doing to promote itself more to the general public? I may be way off base here but hear me out. Arboriculture is not a recoginized trade and a lot of homowners really have no clue about trees or who is qualified to do them. The ISA is always pushing for membership and certification and maintaining that certification has a dollar value along with it. We (including myself) invest money every year to get enough CEU's to re-cert. So why is that arborists are constantly trying to promote themselves to homeowners and hacks just keep getting the jobs anyway?

Anybody know?

Dave

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Instead of just going to get ISA CA/CEUs, take some time and learn sales and marketing. Everyone here is at least a good arbo. Good enough to make a living. If you want to do better, learn what your short comings are. Dollars to donuts, the time spent learning sales will put more money in your pocket that learning more about trees.

Get the movie "Tin Men" with Dreyfuss and De Vito, "Glen Gary, Glen Ross" if you like David Mamet. Excellent sales movie. "The Big Kahuna" is another one to learn from.

How about banding together with other premo arbos and do some self promotion? IF you plan a work day, plan the promotion to be over the top. Get lots of media, it isn't as hard as you think. Make the consumers understand that their trees aren't safe unless they're taken care of by your premo group.

Tom

 

[Koa Man]

A lot has to do with getting the customer to trust you and get the feeling that you will do a better job than the other guy.
I don't advertise, I don't even have a sign on my truck or equipment, but I have more than enough work. 98% of my jobs are repeat customers or referrals. I feel blessed that I have a very good customer base. They will wait 2 months for me to get to their job. I don't lowball either. One referral told me I was the highest of the 3 bids he got, but he decided to go with me because of my detailed explanation of what I was going to do to the tree.

 

[ORclimber]

I'm going to get on the ISA brochure bandwagon. Let the ISA give me credibility. I'm selling against many gray haired guys with shiny trucks who still gut in hooks.

Going to go rent the movies Tom mentioned though, haven't seen him give any bad advice .

 

[SilverBlue]

"So the customer asks me "do you know what you're doing"?"

Simply respond saying YES! I have xx years experience. Don't yak about techniques alone >--->SELL! And always ask for the sale when you are finished talking to the customer.

“So then Mr. big shot customer, when would you like me to start pruning your trees?”

 

[treeman82]

The guy who I was working with today, he has pretty nice stuff. Really nice guy... he has helped me out a bunch of times and asked for nothing in return. I have also helped him out a bunch of times, and get offended when he insists on paying me for my help. Anywho, I was working for him today at one of his tree jobs. Removing a bunch of trees from the lawn and in the woods. Not a huge property, maybe 2 acres or a little more. House has to be worth at least a mil. Looking down the road there is a literal castle within sight 2 houses away. We go to the job today, and he has his excavator there. No need for that really. A tractor with a log arch behind it would have been plenty, along with a 4x4 dump, and 12" chipper, and a good sized stump grinder. He already has a tractor, and the dump, and the chipper. The trees that were supposed to come down were marked with caution tape. Some town inspector came by and gave permits for only the dead trees, and the ones with the tape. We are taking down some of the trees on the lawn, forget putting ropes up there, just push them over with the machine. Don't worry about the stump grinder, instead he just tore up the yard with the excavator and burried a number of stumps. Go up into the woods, he starts pushing over a bunch of healthy ash trees, busting up a number of maples. BIG mess, but he starts pushing over a bunch of trees that aren't marked... if one maple tree was in his way, he would just push it over. End of the day he starts diggin this hole, the size of a swimming pool. Burried a LOT of brush and logs in it. What should have been a selective cut with minimal damage has turned into an area which looks like people are setting off bombs in.

Its kind of funny though, because when we got there today a neighbor pulled up in his car. The guy I was working for told him about me, and I now have to go pay him a visit about doing the work myself.

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by UNBforester
We (including myself) invest money every year to get enough CEU's to re-cert. So why is that arborists are constantly trying to promote themselves to homeowners and hacks just keep getting the jobs anyway?

Anybody know?

Sure, you answered your own question, we invest money to keep ourselves certified, those that are, we invest money for insurance, I'm still looking, we invest money in gear and equipment to keep ourselves safe and prevent property damage and it all gets paid off the bottom line of every job we do. Hacks that drive in uninsured vehicle, climb on old shredded line, hook everything in site can lowball anyone out there who is worth hiring. The general public for the most part unfortunatly has no idea what this biz is about. They will hire the cheapest guy on the block just to get the job done. I agree the ISA and NAA need to get the message out stronger to the public about what this job is about. Good salesmanship can help with some work but there will always be someone out there cheaper with less expenses and that's what most people want.

 

[Ax-man]

There is a market and customer base for the high end companies right down to those on the low end of the scale. This is the way it has always been and it is the way it will always be. It is a pipe dream to assume you can eliminate the low end crowd. The low end crowd is in every facet of the business world. It doesn't matter wheather you do trees, construction or manufacture something, there are those that competete on quality, others compete on price. The discerning customer knows where the best value is for their needs.

People do there tree shopping the way they shop for any thing else. The customer who hires the Cert. Arb. care for their trees and have some kind of realationship with them, their trees are like members of the family to them. These same people are also fussy as to who works on their cars, does work in and around the home. These same people will also do their homework before hiring just any one. Wheather they have money or not is not really an issue , either.

Then there is the other end of the spectrum where the customer just doesn't care who does the work as long as it is the best deal they can get. It is of little concern to this customer that the tree guy left a six foot stub on his tree, from the limb that was over hanging the roof. The guy who cut the tree solved the problem for the least amount of money, improper workmanship just really isn't an issue.

I'm not going argue that knowledge and the ability to sell are not important, IMO it only rates a strong second in getting jobs. I feel that the one on one unspoken contact between two parties plays the biggest factor of all. The ability to read body language, listen to their needs and concerns by listening and giving sound common sense advice and try to gain their trust in you. To the right individual it will go further than any sales pitch ever could, regardless of talent and knowledge of trees you have.

Bottom line in all of this is people do business with who they feel comfortable with. Price and workmanship are not the real issue when you look at it this way.

Larry

 

[a_lopa]

ill admit im only there for my maximum profit if i see theres a dollar im up there otherwise no thanks

 

[VTclimber]

I read in a few posts that some of you guys were interested in getting more attention to our field in general. I have been contemplating sending a letter to Outside magazine suggesting they do an issue on environmentally friendly jobs....stuff like us, river cleanup crews, stuff that isn't glamorous, but that does a lot for the environment. I figured that yeah, most people don't know jack about arboriculture, or what being an arborist is and this would be a good way for them to find out. Any thoughts? Think its a great/stupid idea? Please let me know.

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by VTclimber
I figured that yeah, most people don't know jack about arboriculture, or what being an arborist is and this would be a good way for them to find out. Any thoughts? Think its a great/stupid idea? Please let me know.

Depends on the person doing the article, years ago I had a news reporter follow our crew around NYC watching us take down dead street trees around wires, buildings, sidewalks, people ect. The article that was in the paper was more about how loud the chipper was and how heavy the logs were. Even had a picture of brush going in chipper No mention of what was involved in removal of tree. No mention of even why the trees died.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by VTclimber
I have been contemplating sending a letter to Outside magazine suggesting they do an issue on environmentally friendly jobs.... that does a lot for the environment.

Great idea, but like Dadatwins said, don't trust any reporter to report the real story. Co-write it yourself with a journalist; you understand trees and they understand writing.

Send a query to the editor with your idea--if they reject it, send it to another mag. It takes low ego and high persistence but you can get the word out. Look to Krueger in PA!

 

[wiley_p]

I go to the Northwest Flower and Garden show here every year, (hey I like live plants too.) Also the place is packed with our customers, They pack in this big civention center here in Seattle because the pros are here. Gues what the weakest, lamest looking booth is ISA. It pisses me off that the best they can come up with to promote our profession is a office divider with some logos and the standard handout . Thats it, no digital background showing a technical removal, no commentary about the importance of proper tree care. Nothing at all to draw the public in to askj questions of the arborists working at the booth. The chapter folks are concerned about guys trying to promote there company, question is how do you do that when out of an attendance od 15,000 8 peoplke stop by in a 10 hour period.

 

[jmchristopher]

Stick in there!

Mr. Murphy, stick in there, man. I agree that tere'll always be high and low end - both of tree work companies and clients. There are clients out there that won't ever deserve you! just keep looking for the ones who give a dmn. Then, when you find them, you might make better connections with them by using some "sales" techniques, but I believe the most important thing is to let them know you have a fire in your belly to see the trees treated right and for the client to get what they want.
If you actually think the people had a good question for you, work out what you believe is the best possible answer and practice it until you can deliver it beautifull the next time it comes up.
Looked at another way, it's a good sign that you still get disgusted when you see trees mistreated... it stokes the fire!

 

[rbtree]

wiley,

The PNW ISA and I have been in brief contact...I want to help improve the display...with my photos anyhow. The only good thing is all of Scott's samples..some of which are from my jobs.

 

[RescueMan]

Originally posted by VTclimber
I have been contemplating sending a letter to Outside magazine

Lauryn (VTclimber),

I get excited every time I see your posting name on the site, thinking you're a Vermont climber before realizing that it's your friction knot and not your state.

Getting articles into major publications is a great way to spread the word about what you do, but just suggesting a topic isn't enough. Send them a brief synopsis of an article you'd like to write and, as Guy suggested, keep trying various magazines until one "bites".

I'm a small fry in the rope rescue world but I just got an article idea, and the article, accepted for publication in Advanced Rescue Technology magazine. I had to make a few changes and argue with their editors to keep the message the way I intended it, and convince the publisher that it was reasonable for me to raise questions about the products of their advertisers (they'll have their advertisers respond alongside my article). But I managed to get into publication a challenge to some of the accepted practices of the field.

It's amazing what you can do with a little persistence and a little salesmanship. And I got a check for $400 to boot!

- Robert