Don't want a new saw. Stihl Problem

[PV Hiker]

There are some unanswered questions and diagnose to follow through with.

• That needle bearing shows rust and could be seized up. Clean and lube or replace. If it will not spin on the crank shaft then you are pulling the chain on the bar also.
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• With the starter off the crank spins around fine by hand. as it should. But earlier you mentioned that you put some oil in the cylinder. If there is extra oil or fuel it will still turn by hand ok. Add the starter and yank on it it will still hydro lock due to the faster rotation. It could be a bad bearing that is rotating offset to cause binding.
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• You mentioned that it does not matter when pulling with the selector switch in the off position. This shows that the coil might be fine along with the timing of the flywheel.
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• With the sprocket off and the needle bearing removed, put the starter on, leave the switch to the off position. Pull the starter rope and see if it will pull through.
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• I would rinse the cylinder and crankcase with fuel mix to clean it out, then dry it all out. Air compressor is your friend.
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• Clean the flywheel side and the coil pick up/flywheel magnets. That are gets really packed with crap and good time to do some cleaning for better airflow and helps prevent the seal under getting too hot and failing.

 

[MacAttack]

Added pic of recoil

Don't know why I didn't try that last night after I took starter off. Well surprise, surprise, the flywheel turn easily by hand with the plug in. A CLUE! Going to put the recoil back on and see what happens. I can't see anything wrong with it as it also turns easily by hand.

Added pic of recoil

Don't know why I didn't try that last night after I took starter off. Well surprise, surprise, the flywheel turn easily by hand with the plug in. A CLUE! Going to put the recoil back on and see what happens. I can't see anything wrong with it as it also turns easily by hand.

That's a BIG clue!

I bet your recoil is binding up for some reason when it works under load.

 

[MacAttack]

It's strange though, that recoil looks so simple, it's hard to see how it could bind up??
Is it supposed to just have one metal pawl / dog to catch the recoil cup on the flywheel?

 

[PV Hiker]

It's strange though, that recoil looks so simple, it's hard to see how it could bind up??
Is it supposed to just have one metal pawl / dog to catch the recoil cup on the flywheel?

Looks like it having one metal keeper clip. There is a second spot opposite for a second pawl. I would hose it down with silicone spray to help it slide out into position.

 

[MacAttack]

Yeah it it was me I'd try cleaning the recoil and see it it helps. I've seen weirder things. Like HarleyT pointed out lots of oil mixed with dust on everything.

 

[MacAttack]

Looks like it having one metal keeper clip. There is a second spot opposite for a second pawl. I would hose it down with silicone spray to help it slide out into position.

Ya know...with ONE pawl, that's going to put a strange radial load on that recoil spool when the engine is under compression, could be the other key in this mystery.
2 pawls would center the load on the recoil and keep it from binding. (But I think you're right, looks like they are made with 1 pawl.)

 

[skeet88]

Added pic of recoil

Don't know why I didn't try that last night after I took starter off. Well surprise, surprise, the flywheel turn easily by hand with the plug in. A CLUE! Going to put the recoil back on and see what happens. I can't see anything wrong with it as it also turns easily by hand.

If you look close at the pulley there is wear between washer and pulley . Pulley could have excess wear making it loose on the shaft. The starter pawl appears to have a burr on it also indicating wear.Like was mentioned the pulley could be binding when trying to start the saw. Be Safe!

 

[MacAttack]

 

[SteveSr]

There are some unanswered questions and diagnose to follow through with.

• That needle bearing shows rust and could be seized up. Clean and lube or replace. If it will not spin on the crank shaft then you are pulling the chain on the bar also.

The bearing is not on the shaft. It appears that there is some plastic from the previous bearing failure that needs to be removed.

 

[PV Hiker]

The bearing is not on the shaft. It appears that there is some plastic from the previous bearing failure that needs to be removed.

Thanks Steve with a closer look it does not look normal.!...
.
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[Goat boy]

The bearing is not on the shaft. It appears that there is some plastic from the previous bearing failure that needs to be removed.

Took a quick glance at it after removing the clutch to make sure it turned but sounds like it needs a closer look. That bearing failed when the saw was almost new. The little Stihl dealer where I bought the saw said those bearings were a problem and he had an updated version in stock. The one were looking at has lasted 26 years. Sounds like between possibly the bearing and the recoil things are starting to add up in the right direction. The saw ran perfectly before it was shut off the last time it was used so I was finding it hard to believe that something major was wrong.

 

[Goat boy]

I don't know how to thank everyone enough for all the help here, it's truly been amazing. Although I'm a retired auto tech for almost 50 years, rebuilding automatic transmissions etc. For some strange reason I've always been baffled and frustrated by small engines. Their so simple but I guess some of you probably couldn't rebuild an automatic transmission either! But I will always try to fix "anything" before throwing it away and buying new. The internet and youtube are things I didn't grow up with, we just had to figured it out. Now things sure have changed, google is your friend. Guess how I got here?

 

[SteveSr]

Thanks Steve with a closer look it does not look normal.!...

The bearing is on there! Looks to be toast. Probably never cleaned or lubed in 26 years!

 

[sundance]

Ya know...with ONE pawl, that's going to put a strange radial load on that recoil spool when the engine is under compression, could be the other key in this mystery.
2 pawls would center the load on the recoil and keep it from binding. (But I think you're right, looks like they are made with 1 pawl.)

I fitted a second pawl on mine. Used an 036 retainer clip as i recall to replace the one pawl retainer. Helped mine but didn't really fix it.

 

[rd35]

If you're worried about that clutch/sprocket needle bearing, unlock your chain brake, remove the spark plug, and crank the engine. If that needle bearing is binding up then your chain will run on the bar when you crank the engine.

 

[MacAttack]

If you're worried about that clutch/sprocket needle bearing, unlock your chain brake, remove the spark plug, and crank the engine. If that needle bearing is binding up then your chain will run on the bar when you crank the engine.

Yep, this would have been one of the first things to try, if he didn't.

 

[Goat boy]

The bearing is not on the shaft. It appears that there is some plastic from the previous bearing failure that needs to be removed.

Looked at it today, the plastic is from the current bearing. The bearing itself looks fine but the plastic end is not attached. It said after 26 yrs. I'm done.

 

[Goat boy]

The bearing is on there! Looks to be toast. Probably never cleaned or lubed in 26 years!

Yep.

 

[Goat boy]

If you look close at the pulley there is wear between washer and pulley . Pulley could have excess wear making it loose on the shaft. The starter pawl appears to have a burr on it also indicating wear.Like was mentioned the pulley could be binding when trying to start the saw. Be Safe!View attachment 1036124View attachment 1036124

Took a closer look at the starter today too, it looks like it's 27 yrs. old. Going to replace the whole assembly. Not sure what they do but the plastic teeth around the outside of the rope spool are half worn off on about 1/3 of it.

 

[cookies]

Get a recoil rebuild kit that comes with the spool, washer, pawl and retainer clip. Inspect the shaft it rides on. The shaft and spool bore get worn allowing the spool to cock to the side and bind during starting. Stay away from knockoff starter assemblies, they are trash.