Dropping Standing Dead Stuff

[Hedgerow]

Sorry - my term for having the butt of the trunk slide backwards off the stump, what I guess is being referred to as stumpshot.

It does make sense to me that this should not be a huge issue with a dead stick like that.

Gotcha... What always worries me the most about the dead "snags" as I've heard them called, is the fear of cutting through the only solid stuff in the tree, leaving only junk to hold all the vertical weight!:msp_scared:
I'm sure there are guys that make a living removing these types, and have made a science out of it.
I just don't know any.

 

[H 2 H]

Just cut down a good size Alder (50') this morning and the center was hollow scared me pretty good; making the under cut and the tree started going down and I was only in it about 5" and the tree was about 24" dia. at the but it was hollow the first 5 feet at the but

 

[haveawoody]

Standing dead the bigger they get the harder they fall.

Dead stuff as smallish trees seem to follow gravity pretty well but beyond 2ft they seem to follow a new set of random rules sometimes.
Anything dead i rope as high up as i can without climbing (crossbow) works well to get a starter rope up high.
Then it's winch time to put some tension on the tree to direct it where you want.
I take a few extra minutes to remove everything i can reach with my pole saw on the fell side to help the process along and to stop fragile things from just dropping on me as i make the fell cut.

Give the dead tree a good hard wrap with a hammer on the place you intend to make your cuts before you make the fell cut.
A rotten center will make a very different sound than solid wood.
Not a guarantee you wont find a rotten section on your cut but atleast the hammer hit will give you a good idea of what your dealing with most of the time.

 

[redoakneck]

Almost everthing I cut is "Standing Dead Oak"
I started taking an axe and removing all of the "punk" on the outside of the cut area.
Now I use my saw to remove most of it. Finish up with the axe.
This way I can see just how much solid wood I have to work with.
Ran into that wedge in the punk wood thing several years back.

I also put a rope up in them. Unlike WhiteSpider I get my rope as high as possible.
Tye it off to a 3-ton come-a-long and redirect their fall.

David

Make sure the wood is good if putting the rope up high, pull first (while you are away from the tree!!) and see how much force you can apply before you cut. If the tree is dead and you put that rope up high, and pull while you are cutting or under the tree, watch out!!!
I just did a 32" dead maple and half of it was dead to the point of being too weak to put a strap up high. I think white spider has done this a bit and see why he goes low thinking the wood should be stronger. These dead ones always have a very high sphincter factor for me, couldn't drive a tack in my azz with a 10# sledge when under one of them. Just my 2 cents, they are all different, but the deader the worse IMO.

 

[haveawoody]

H 2 H,

Got to love when your saw cuts like mad when you hit the hollow spot.
Thats when they get dangerous fast.

I had a different problem on a dead 2' rock elm early this year.
The tree was realy really hard to cut so it was taking forever to make my fell cut.
No pinches or binds just crazy hard section.

The tree was roped then winched under tension but as my fell cut got close the entire tree just moved over 1/4" and the hinge was gone.
The culprit was a high up small branch that had grown into the tree beside it, just a 2" branch way up holding up the tree now with no let go happening.

Spent nearly an hour pounding wedges but with no hinge it was a very scarey hour.
When i stepped back to imagane how i was going to do this safely a wind gust hit and both trees came down at once.
I guess some serious weight was on tree#2 from tree #1 because tree #2 wasn't cut at all.

 

[indiansprings]

I think fallling dead oak is the most dangerous actvity I do, really only cut oak and hickory, once in a while green hedge or ash.
I wear a hard hat if their is any limbs, if the tree is good and solid I've never had and issue, but punky ones scare the hell out of me, I posted a video on here of me falling just such a tree, 30/32 dbh on a steep hollow side, it was not something I even wanted to do, I did exactly as some have stated, deeper face cut, when I started the back cut it was amazing how fast the thing went over, as soon as I hear it crack I took off like a jackrabbit, I hadn't got five steps when I heard it hit the ground.
Now after the surgery my days of doing trees like that are over, sure as heck can't react near as fast, at least for the next few months.

If you ever get fearless falling trees like that, you need to quit, because your going to wind up in the bottom of a six foot hole.

 

[H 2 H]

H 2 H,

Got to love when your saw cuts like mad when you hit the hollow spot.
Thats when they get dangerous fast.

I had a different problem on a dead 2' rock elm early this year.
The tree was realy really hard to cut so it was taking forever to make my fell cut.
No pinches or binds just crazy hard section.

The tree was roped then winched under tension but as my fell cut got close the entire tree just moved over 1/4" and the hinge was gone.
The culprit was a high up small branch that had grown into the tree beside it, just a 2" branch way up holding up the tree now with no let go happening.

Spent nearly an hour pounding wedges but with no hinge it was a very scarey hour.
When i stepped back to imagane how i was going to do this safely a wind gust hit and both trees came down at once.
I guess some serious weight was on tree#2 from tree #1 because tree #2 wasn't cut at all.

That's what happen going great and then nothing; I pull the saw out so fast and stood back and I could hear cracking I stepped back about ten feet and she just fell over :msp_tongue:

 

[haveawoody]

H 2 H,

I've had a couple of those core rotten things just crumble one side of the hinge.
Always a rapid heartbeat when the saw goes mental and you either cut right through the hinge or one side of the hinge starts to go.
Then it's a question of how fast can a man run with a chainsaw LOL

Hard to tell they were trees on the ground afterwards LOL

 

[Chris-PA]

If you ever get fearless falling trees like that, you need to quit, because your going to wind up in the bottom of a six foot hole.

Well I won't be getting fearless any time soon! There's a big pucker factor when I drop one of those and probably always will be. I actually did this one because I was pretty sure the base was solid in the middle. Red oak without obvious defects is usually pretty solid around here, but the ashes are anyone's guess, regardless of how they look from the outside. The darn things can get really punky and still look pretty good.

One time I was cutting a three trunk white ash, each trunk between 12" and 15". I cut off the first one and then the last two were joined about 5' up. So I decided to take the smaller first above the joined part. Just as I got almost done done with the back cut, the larger trunk I had not touched simply broke off completely, and the whole thing fell right in my escape path. The one I was working on was still up, and the one that broke looked far more solid than the one I was cutting. Thankfully it had a lean and the few upper branches fell away from me. I'm glad it was not a bigger tree.

 

[flashhole]

Good thread and timely for me. Three years ago a big storm came through and knocked the tops out of a lot of trees, two of them across my easement road. Not a big deal to cut and move the fallen stuff but now I have the dead trunk to deal with. It's not a monster tree but it is good size ... about 30 inches diameter and about 40 feet tall. It has some lean to it and it's leaning is a good direction with a reasonably clear drop zone. I will tackle it in the next week or two. Some good pointers here.

 

[farmboss45]

One thing I would advise is "NOT" to run before it "commits" to the fall, too many people get flattened because they thought it was going one way, then "HELLO stump spin" or something else goofy happens. Also, the advise on hard hat, never was one for them, but with as many dead ash as I am cutting, I made myself get in the habit. As I get older, the PPE gets to be more of a habit. Chaps, helmet w/ muffs[441 screams] and kevlar backed gloves are worn more so than not. Big face cuts as posted earlier also are a must when you do not have the top weight to take them over help a lot. Trunk lean does not always dominate.

 

[RandyMac]

Hollow Red Fir, noisy result

Doug Fir snag, burnt and rotten

More DF snags

What is this PPE you speak of?

 

[Hedgerow]

Hollow Red Fir, noisy result

Doug Fir snag, burnt and rotten

More DF snags

What is this PPE you speak of?

Did you ever get that coon out of that tree???:msp_biggrin:

 

[rwoods]

Come to think of it there is a slight resemblance to Marcel Ledbetter. :msp_smile: Ron

 

[RandyMac]

Did you ever get that coon out of that tree???:msp_biggrin:

This had 'coon bones inside it. It was also a noisy event.

 

[Chris-PA]

One thing I would advise is "NOT" to run before it "commits" to the fall, too many people get flattened because they thought it was going one way, then "HELLO stump spin" or something else goofy happens. Also, the advise on hard hat, never was one for them, but with as many dead ash as I am cutting, I made myself get in the habit. As I get older, the PPE gets to be more of a habit. Chaps, helmet w/ muffs[441 screams] and kevlar backed gloves are worn more so than not. Big face cuts as posted earlier also are a must when you do not have the top weight to take them over help a lot. Trunk lean does not always dominate.

Well, I had my two wedges in it and I couldn't really pound them in much farther with my hatchet. I wasn't going to cut through the hinge. About all I could do was walk away (while watching it of course) and think about it from a safe distance. My Dad had a third wedge so I was thinking about getting that. But I also have seen enough of these to know they do often just go over after a delay, maybe from a breeze or maybe from finally cracking out a few more fibers. I liked watching it fall from where I was.

 

[Gologit]

Get rid of the hatchet and get a four or five pound axe. If you're going to drive wedges, drive them.

 

[RandyMac]

This is the wiener section Bob.

 

[farmboss45]

Well, I had my two wedges in it and I couldn't really pound them in much farther with my hatchet. I wasn't going to cut through the hinge. About all I could do was walk away (while watching it of course) and think about it from a safe distance. My Dad had a third wedge so I was thinking about getting that. But I also have seen enough of these to know they do often just go over after a delay, maybe from a breeze or maybe from finally cracking out a few more fibers. I liked watching it fall from where I was.

I know what your saying, I had one the other day that fought the cut all the way, wind blowing the same way it was falling, just sank real slow, I was inclined to watch from a distance as well.

 

[Chris-PA]

This is the wiener section Bob.

Gee, I wish I could be as cool as you.

Knowledge ain't worth squat if it comes with attitude.