Drug Testing

[rumination]

I'm a little lost on some of the logic here. If an employee enjoys drinking in the evenings even to the point of getting a little drunk on occasion, but always shows up to work sober and alert, then there is no problem. Perfectly legal, you can't complain.

BUT, if an employee smokes a little dope in the evenings, and always shows up to work sober and alert, then he can get nailed by a random drug test. Sure one guy is braking the law, and the other guy isn't, but it's not the employer's place to be the police.

Now, if an employee's job performance is affected by drugs, alcohol, or even habitually staying up all night and screwing his girlfriend, then THAT is a problem.

I've known employers to be shocked, surprised, and dismayed when they lost their best employee to a random drug test. That kind of thing just sets everybody back.

 

[TreeJunkie]

Just last year our company had to really deal w/ our drug issue. W/ in a one month period, one individual who'd been w/ the company 5 years, decided he would take a company vehicle out for the night . He did this with out asking, and after becoming intoxicated at a near bar. After being found out the next morning. Caught in the act trying to sneak the truck back in. Well that day was his last; turned out this hadn't been the first incident. He also was serving a suspended liscense for d.u.i.

In this same month we had to fire an individual for smoking weed on the job. Not that this was the first time it had been discovered by others. However it had not yet gotten up to the higher officials within.. After finding this person stealing gear from my bag. And then denying the fact it was mine. The individual became combative w/ me. The situation never really culminated to anything. But it ended when the boss man later found out about a drug issue which had been going on. Funny way things come out when relationships go sour. Up until this point no one had the courage or will power to tell the boss. He'd been fired from Asplundh a few years earlier for similar problems.

At our company, we have a drug free policy and discretion to test if we feel we need. However a U.A. is not a prereck to employment.

I personally wish we did, I can't deal w/ the drug addicts, personally or professionally. I know what it's like dealing w/ them in a work situation. It was a total nightmare. They just don't fit the profile for the image our company is trying to present.

 

[Nickrosis]

Drug legalization aside.....please....

My question again: What is the policy?

When you do a UA for Commercial Drivers, you test for the common drugs, alcohol being one of them, because it's important to not have people on the road under the influence of any of them. I don't want to lose a great employee because they blew weed three years ago, but I would want to work under a policy that shielded everyone from people who were showingup under the influence of something - drug, alcohol or otherwise.

You can fire someone who is showing up at work exhausted from repetitive sexual acts or from surfing at ArboristSite.com too late in the evening or whatever. You can fire for any kind of gross misconduct. I just want to find something that is (1) legal and (2) fair. I think that's possible to achieve, but I don't know what the words would be.

 

[NeTree]

My CDL guys have to be tested regularly. New hires get tested once. If theyr'e stupid enough to be positive for a test they know about at least a week in advance, then I don't want them anyways. Weed out alot of morons that way.

Overall, what they do on their own time is their business. I don't ask, they don't tell.

I do expect them straight/sober in the morning, and not smelling of anything. Whether I care or nor is irrelevant; it's the kind of thing a customer WILL pick up on though, and I don't want the bad word-of-mouth for my company or to have to explain to a customer why my groundie smells like a brewery.

If I find they're doing it on MY time, they're history. No excuses, no second-chances.

 

[geofore]

Under the influence

" I would want to work under a policy that shielded everyone from people who were showing up under the influence of something - drug, alcohol or otherwise" Nick, that doesn't work. It sounds like you intetionally discriminate against the disabled. I'd be the first guy to sue you for letting me go because I take drugs every day for years to control epilepsey. You'd lose in court bigtime. The idea that if everyone that took drugs should be let go doesn't wash. What you're saying is you wouldn't hire anyone with a disability that needed drugs to stay alive? Get it clear in your head now that Zero tolorance is not a possibility by reading the Disability Act, I have and you should. You are saying under the influence and you're not thinking that there are other posibilities out there. Engage your mind before you engage your mouth. Think First! Engage mouth later! I flunk all urine tests I take because of the meds, fire me and I will win in court and demand back pay and win that also.

 

[NeTree]

geofore, surely you realize that the first thing they ask you when you go for drug testing is "Are you on any medications"?

In your case, a positive result from legally prescribed medication would be treated as a negative.

Sounds like you're on Tegretol. I've heard Dilantin can also make you test positive for barbs {Nick- most anticonvulsants are barbituate based}, but Neurontin supposedly won't. Go figure.

 

[TreeJunkie]

Nick, First of all, your not gonna catch anyone drinking w/ a UA. It's out of your system too fast, and it's not illegal to have had drinks on your own time. Secondly i'm not sure what it's like where you live but around here people don't blow weed, i 'm pretty sure they smoke it. Lol i' can just see you stuffing the green up your nose. I know as a business owner you can do testing for specific drugs. If weed is not something that bothers you. Then don't test for it. Personally, i could care less if an employee smokes weed on there own time, as long as it's not on mine. Crack and some of the more illicit drugs however, i don't need that crap around....I've never heard of an addict selling his mother's car so he could get a bag of weed. Now a rock that's a different story. I prefer not to have that type around...It brings bad things, not to mention missing equipment and teeth.

 

[Nickrosis]

Re: Under the influence

Originally posted by geofore
It sounds like you intetionally discriminate against the disabled. I'd be the first guy to sue you for letting me go because I take drugs every day for years to control epilepsey. You'd lose in court bigtime.

Why would I fire you because you took an epilepsey medication???? Settle down! I think I'm coming across as a rational human being who doesn't want people coming in to work doped up on illegal drugs or dancing around with still-illegal blood alcohol levels from the night before.

 

[Ken Jones]

Check with your general liability insurance carrier. They probably have a written policy lying around for their clients. That's also who is going to stop underwriting insurance policies for employers who "don't care what their guys do on their own time." All it takes is one screw-up, and the insurance companies get involved, find out that, "yeah, I knew he smoked a little weed, but...." That's tacit approval, if you knew about it and did nothing to stop your employee from performing under the influence. Nick, a written policy is strictly CYA, but if you plan on running legal with all the insurance, you NEED to have it. Otherwise, if something bad happens, plan on flying-by-night, because no insurance company will cover you, unless you plan on paying more for the insurance than you can gross in a year.

Ken:jester:

 

[The Best GM]

"drug testing.....a nice easy way to start alienating some hard working people"

Truly and completly the most intelligent and in my opinion thread ending statement that defines itself so clear that i'm left think that it should end right there. My aplause to you Base

 

[gab]

Myself and my staff with CDL's have pre-hire and random urine and breath tests. If caught over the limit you have one more chance, regular anti drug meetings and your name put on a second random name list. Second positive and you are gone, period. This has been our policy for around 9-10 years. We have always had the suspicion policy. There is our policy, now my thoughts on it.
In the last 9-10 years I have noticed no significant drop in injuries/accidents, in some years it seems there are even more. I have witnessed several dedicated and accident free workers let go or leave because of the policy, and moral takes a hit due to the perception of invasion of privacy. When moral goes down, productivity and dedication go with it. In short, I do not feel any safer, and the money spent on all the testing does not ever go into good employees pockets as a raise. I am a supervisor, and it is our job to make sure our emplyees work safely no matter what clouds or impairs thier performance, whether it be drugs, alcohol, late night movies or depression. What happened to the days where good people were rewarded and problems were dealt with as needed. Why should people be lumped into groups and labeled as uneeded or problematic? In my opinion suspicion is all that is needed, if you have an employee impaired at work, deal with it. If you have an employee doing great, don't worry about his/her private life. It is America, we are supposed to have freedom and privacy, right?

 

[NeTree]

Hmmm...

Last year I had to spend $2300 to repair a chipper and a truck due to a groundie's use of drugs impairing his judgement. He was responsible for properly hooking the chipper up, and failed to hook safety chains or lock pintle.

Needless to say, the first hard stop the truck had to make, the chipper went slamming into the back of the truck, breaking the tailgate, lights, bending the dump body, mangled the chute on the chipper.

Can the same thing happen to someone NOT under the influence? Maybe... but I've never had a "straight" person do it.

Post-accident drug test revealed cocaine.

So...

Which would have been cheaper?

$35 drug test or $2300 in repairs?

Sorry, that incident changed my whole outlook on a drug policy. Too frigging bad.

Oh, and the testing wasn't MY idea... it was talked about among the guys, and they agreed to it amongst themselves and came to me asking for it.

 

[Nathan Wreyford]

Originally posted by netree
Hmmm...

due to a groundie's use of drugs impairing his judgement.

Post-accident drug test revealed cocaine.

I don't see how a groundie could afford a cocaine habit on groundie pay.

You must pay well.

 

[The Best GM]

The testing should be on the spot eye or coordination type test!!!!! NOT A BLOOD TEST

 

[jamie]

dope

flatmate at college.

he would wake up have a joint, get out of bed, phone me while rolling next joint to say that he slept in again and to ask if i would pick up some course work for him. eventually turn up to college at break time, have another joint, go to a class and come lunch time have another joint, afternoon in classes have joint while waiting on bus, go home smoke a lot more and talk a lot of $hit.

would i work with him.....no

he had a few driving lessons, would i et in a car with him.....no

why? apart from the fact that he talked a load of cack i felt that the amount he was smoking was too much, if he was having a pint before getting out of bed (a beer tap in the bedroom....great idea) and drinking that much over the day i wouldn't work with him either.

i have many other friends that smoke (not as much as he did) who i would be happier working with

jamie

 

[gab]

Yes, those type of accidents happen to us as well, even by workers not on drugs. I would have had him tested as well for screwing up the chipper, however, even if he was on random testing people get creative and find ways to beat the system. I see this happen all the time. So now you have the expence of random testing and still have not necessarily cleaned up the problem. It amazes me how much energy people will put into not getting caught, instead of just following the rules. Our government is a good example.
I suppose the cost issue for random testing changes on how many employees one has, 5 or 10 it may be worth it, several hundred to thousands like in my situation and your talking some bucks. There must be a better way.

 

[NeTree]

That was before I started doing it.

 

[geofore]

UA

I know where your coming from Nick, our ins. co. wanted four random tests a year on the guys that had CDL's. About the third time I had to explain why I was testing positive I about took the insurance guys head off. They didn't ask if you were on meds they just read the test results from their lab. Forget that they might not read the second page with the med report, that would be like having to work to turn a page.
I helped a friend of mine get reinstated at the US Post Office with 3 years back pay, he had epilepsy too. You touched a sore spot. I'm feeling better now.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

i dont mind anyone having a joint and a beer after work but before the start of work or during a working day no way im not having that....drug testing good idea i do not want a crack or heroin addict working for me .and just waiting to steal all my gear

a smoke and a beer after work great im up for that hey i'll even roll and buy the beer ..but no hard s**t no way

 

[Reed]

It's all relative - meaning I've known men who turn to complete jerks after a few beers, some laid-back mellow dudes hyper-out and get mean after a couple joints.

Perhaps the loosening of the conscious facades?

I was in cancer treatment with Carl Sagan. Well, we met in the waiting room a few times at a blood clinic and later in the bone marrow ward. A few coffee's and later over the phone, he revealed he had smoked pot every day since his junior year in high school. In fact, thought it so important relative to his understanding of things universal, his wife became the director of NORML, lobbying for reform of laws for decriminalization, especially for medical reasons.

He reaked alright, we even went and blew one in the parking garage but I became stupider, he went cosmic. I'm that way. He was his way.

Flying, sewing sutures, climbing, or bidding can't be done on a buzz but I've known men who excel on it, again, others who don't.

Coke's another story. It eats the mind.