Echo CS-490 DEAD after 11.5 months?

[Analyst Man]

I'm confused as well. A 50:1 fuel/oil mix is made up of about 98.04% fuel. But a 32:1 fuel/oil mix is only made up of about 96.97% fuel. Doesn't this mean the 50:1 mix is richer than the 32:1 mix?

Yes.

 

[cuinrearview]

A saw that requires 50/1 fuel mix will run hotter and leaner if you use 32/1 mix??? I've never heard that, isn't it the other way around?

It won't necessarily run hotter, but the combustion will be hotter because of the higher air/fuel ratio. There are other things that can alter the A/F but with all other variables(high speed screw) unchanged, just changing your mix ratio will lead to slightly hotter combustion. Is it enough to start melting a piston? Good question, but if the high speed screw is already set to the ragged edge of a lean A/F mix one could question the possibility.

 

[holeycow]

So let me get this straight in my mind:

Echo corporate complies with Epa regulations by shipping saws tuned lean.

These saws generally have restrictive mufflers which we know further compounds any heat issues that would occur in a lean condition.

Many, many of these saws go right out the door in a box in the new owner’s hands. (A large part of Echo’s sales model.)

Some go out of small engine shops “tuned” by mechanics there. If the caps are even popped at that point, they go back in leaving little to no room on the hi screw to tune richer as the saw loosens up.

The unknowing owners run their saw hot as it slowly but surely burns up. Or, since it on the edge of burning up, any miniscule fuel delivery issue kills their machine.

Echo provides a 5 year warranty on their equipment but they take no responsibility for burned up engines due to lean condition. (Remember the box-store saws...they don’t get any “dealer support”).

Dealers (or people who work for dealers or are in some way associated or somehow have a horse in the race) and enthusiasts come on here and places like here to recommend immediate fuel adjustments and muffler mods to make these Echos run right out of the box, as they are known to be lean (and low powered) due to Echo’s current environmental compliance strategy. I hope Echo thanks you for that!

Now then; if a consumer has what they believe is a legitimate warranty claim said consumer replaces the caps on the carb AND buys a new muffler to make sure the service centre knows that the saw hasn’t been tampered with (cause you wouldn’t want any questions raised about that). Surely sending the saw to Echo corporate in modified condition would be folly. Then you may have to wait 3 months to even know if your claim is legit. And this claim you start is probably going to cost you at-the-least a not-really nominal inspection fee, considering it is probably at least 10% of the cost of the saw.

Echo is not the only company that has done this but they are way late to the party on developing the technology to correctly comply with regulations and make their saws run properly “out of the box”.

Echo’s evasive environmental regulation compliance strategy leaves some customers out in the cold.

Does this sound like a company that competes head-to-head with Husqvarna and Stihl (or even Makita/Dolmar) in the pro user market?

Echo corporate hasn’t the right attitude nor the product line nor the product support to play in the big woods.

 

[cuinrearview]

So let me get this straight in my mind:

Echo corporate complies with Epa regulations by shipping saws tuned lean.

These saws generally have restrictive mufflers which we know further compounds any heat issues that would occur in a lean condition.

Many, many of these saws go right out the door in a box in the new owner’s hands. (A large part of Echo’s sales model.)

Some go out of small engine shops “tuned” by mechanics there. If the caps are even popped at that point, they go back in leaving little to no room on the hi screw to tune richer as the saw loosens up.

The unknowing owners run their saw hot as it slowly but surely burns up. Or, since it on the edge of burning up, any miniscule fuel delivery issue kills their machine.

Echo provides a 5 year warranty on their equipment but they take no responsibility for burned up engines due to lean condition. (Remember the box-store saws...they don’t get any “dealer support”).

Dealers (or people who work for dealers or are in some way associated or somehow have a horse in the race) and enthusiasts come on here and places like here to recommend immediate fuel adjustments and muffler mods to make these Echos run right out of the box, as they are known to be lean (and low powered) due to Echo’s current environmental compliance strategy. I hope Echo thanks you for that!

Now then; if a consumer has what they believe is a legitimate warranty claim said consumer replaces the caps on the carb AND buys a new muffler to make sure the service centre knows that the saw hasn’t been tampered with (cause you wouldn’t want any questions raised about that). Surely sending the saw to Echo corporate in modified condition would be folly. Then you may have to wait 3 months to even know if your claim is legit. And this claim you start is probably going to cost you at-the-least a not-really nominal inspection fee, considering it is probably at least 10% of the cost of the saw.

Echo is not the only company that has done this but they are way late to the party on developing the technology to correctly comply with regulations and make their saws run properly “out of the box”.

Echo’s evasive environmental regulation compliance strategy leaves some customers out in the cold.

Does this sound like a company that competes head-to-head with Husqvarna and Stihl (or even Makita/Dolmar) in the pro user market?

Echo corporate hasn’t the right attitude nor the product line nor the product support to play in the big woods.

You seem like you have a pretty good handle on it. I'd be willing to bet there are some good dealers out there that would go to bat for the customer. I have read stories about every major manufacturer snubbing their customers in a similar situation though. It's an across the board EPA issue.


I wonder what happens if we use the search function here for "trim the limiters"?

 

[holeycow]

You seem like you have a pretty good handle on it. I'd be willing to bet there are some good dealers out there that would go to bat for the customer. I have read stories about every major manufacturer snubbing their customers in a similar situation though. It's an across the board EPA issue.


I wonder what happens if we use the search function here for "trim the limiters"?

I agree on all counts.

 

[RandyinTN]

And then you have people like me. I used my 490 for 3 hours yesterday clearing up blown over trees. Saw runs great, zero issues other than it is difficult to start if it sits for 4 months or more. But once it warms up one easy pull gets it going again.

If there was a step by step tutorial on how to tune might consider it. But then again with my luck I would turn a great running saw into one that spit and sputtered.

 

[mh9162013]

So let me get this straight in my mind:

Echo corporate complies with Epa regulations by shipping saws tuned lean.

These saws generally have restrictive mufflers which we know further compounds any heat issues that would occur in a lean condition.

Many, many of these saws go right out the door in a box in the new owner’s hands. (A large part of Echo’s sales model.)

Some go out of small engine shops “tuned” by mechanics there. If the caps are even popped at that point, they go back in leaving little to no room on the hi screw to tune richer as the saw loosens up.

The unknowing owners run their saw hot as it slowly but surely burns up. Or, since it on the edge of burning up, any miniscule fuel delivery issue kills their machine.

Echo provides a 5 year warranty on their equipment but they take no responsibility for burned up engines due to lean condition. (Remember the box-store saws...they don’t get any “dealer support”).

Dealers (or people who work for dealers or are in some way associated or somehow have a horse in the race) and enthusiasts come on here and places like here to recommend immediate fuel adjustments and muffler mods to make these Echos run right out of the box, as they are known to be lean (and low powered) due to Echo’s current environmental compliance strategy. I hope Echo thanks you for that!

Now then; if a consumer has what they believe is a legitimate warranty claim said consumer replaces the caps on the carb AND buys a new muffler to make sure the service centre knows that the saw hasn’t been tampered with (cause you wouldn’t want any questions raised about that). Surely sending the saw to Echo corporate in modified condition would be folly. Then you may have to wait 3 months to even know if your claim is legit. And this claim you start is probably going to cost you at-the-least a not-really nominal inspection fee, considering it is probably at least 10% of the cost of the saw.

Echo is not the only company that has done this but they are way late to the party on developing the technology to correctly comply with regulations and make their saws run properly “out of the box”.

Echo’s evasive environmental regulation compliance strategy leaves some customers out in the cold.

Does this sound like a company that competes head-to-head with Husqvarna and Stihl (or even Makita/Dolmar) in the pro user market?

Echo corporate hasn’t the right attitude nor the product line nor the product support to play in the big woods.

That sounds like the the gist of what's being discussed here. These facts, if true, would be an extraordinary allegation, maybe even along the lines of what VW did with their diesel engines. I wonder if there's any way to reasonably (from a cost perspective), prove it? Probably not, unfortunately.

 

[SmellyPirateHooker]

So let me get this straight in my mind:

Echo corporate complies with Epa regulations by shipping saws tuned lean.

These saws generally have restrictive mufflers which we know further compounds any heat issues that would occur in a lean condition.

Many, many of these saws go right out the door in a box in the new owner’s hands. (A large part of Echo’s sales model.)

Some go out of small engine shops “tuned” by mechanics there. If the caps are even popped at that point, they go back in leaving little to no room on the hi screw to tune richer as the saw loosens up.

The unknowing owners run their saw hot as it slowly but surely burns up. Or, since it on the edge of burning up, any miniscule fuel delivery issue kills their machine.

Echo provides a 5 year warranty on their equipment but they take no responsibility for burned up engines due to lean condition. (Remember the box-store saws...they don’t get any “dealer support”).

Dealers (or people who work for dealers or are in some way associated or somehow have a horse in the race) and enthusiasts come on here and places like here to recommend immediate fuel adjustments and muffler mods to make these Echos run right out of the box, as they are known to be lean (and low powered) due to Echo’s current environmental compliance strategy. I hope Echo thanks you for that!

Now then; if a consumer has what they believe is a legitimate warranty claim said consumer replaces the caps on the carb AND buys a new muffler to make sure the service centre knows that the saw hasn’t been tampered with (cause you wouldn’t want any questions raised about that). Surely sending the saw to Echo corporate in modified condition would be folly. Then you may have to wait 3 months to even know if your claim is legit. And this claim you start is probably going to cost you at-the-least a not-really nominal inspection fee, considering it is probably at least 10% of the cost of the saw.

Echo is not the only company that has done this but they are way late to the party on developing the technology to correctly comply with regulations and make their saws run properly “out of the box”.

Echo’s evasive environmental regulation compliance strategy leaves some customers out in the cold.

Does this sound like a company that competes head-to-head with Husqvarna and Stihl (or even Makita/Dolmar) in the pro user market?

Echo corporate hasn’t the right attitude nor the product line nor the product support to play in the big woods.

Depends on how you look at it. Many like me don't want auto tune, I have a husky with it and I'll pass. So as long as echo continues to dodge the autotune it will be one of the many reasons I will look to them.

 

[holeycow]

Depends on how you look at it. Many like me don't want auto tune, I have a husky with it and I'll pass. So as long as echo continues to dodge the autotune it will be one of the many reasons I will look to them.

That’s one of the biggest reasons I bought my cs590.

I think I read somewhere that Echo is developing auto tune too..?

Get them while they’re hot. And then pull the caps to cool them down.

 

[holeycow]

That sounds like the the gist of what's being discussed here. These facts, if true, would be an extraordinary allegation, maybe even along the lines of what VW did with their diesel engines. I wonder if there's any way to reasonably (from a cost perspective), prove it? Probably not, unfortunately.

I think VW had a different plan. They showed disrespect for the regulations.

Echo shows disrespect for customers.

Imo.

 

[SmellyPirateHooker]

That’s one of the biggest reasons I bought my cs590.

I think I read somewhere that Echo is developing auto tune too..?

Get them while they’re hot. And then pull the caps to cool them down.

That's the word. I'm thinking it might show up on the 680 replacement, but who knows.
To clarify, it's not even that I've had real issues with the Husky, I just feel it's a fix for a problem I don't have. And I also feel a good chainsaw should be as basic and simple as it can be. Really, IMO, it should be offered in lower saws and at the very least given only as an option on pro saws.

 

[SmellyPirateHooker]

It won't necessarily run hotter, but the combustion will be hotter because of the higher air/fuel ratio. There are other things that can alter the A/F but with all other variables(high speed screw) unchanged, just changing your mix ratio will lead to slightly hotter combustion. Is it enough to start melting a piston? Good question, but if the high speed screw is already set to the ragged edge of a lean A/F mix one could question the possibility.

It very well could run hotter and should. While the oil in the fuel is needed, it is also an impurity as to how fuel burns and octane rating is concerned . The more oil, the more you lower your octane. Lower the octane the hotter the burn. That's why on most cans of ready use it says they "use" 92 or 93 octane fuel, not "it is" that.

 

[lambs]

I've heard saws go lean when the user didn't think to shake up the 2 cycle gas before pouring it in the saw. I always shake up the mix.

Not to dispute any of the thoughts expressed above, I don't doubt these saws are shipped / delivered lean.

 

[Analyst Man]

I run 40/1 in my 562XP which calls for 50/1, but then again it has autotune. There's lots of information on which oil/fuel mix is best, both pro and con but I noticed there are a lot of professionals running heavier than called for mixes.

 

[holeycow]

Ah oh...

 

[Analyst Man]

See; fuel mixture by woodsdog2015 on 14 Dec, 2015 21:46 on
Here's an excerpt:

 

[KenJax Tree]

You can run any ratio you want as long as the saw is tuned for it.

25:1 with a 50:1 tune is gonna cause a problem

 

[Analyst Man]

You can run any ratio you want as long as the saw is tuned for it.

25:1 with a 50:1 tune is gonna cause a problem

Probably. I wouldn't do it, but I'm not concerned that running 40/1 in any of my 50/1 saws is going to cause a problem. I'll probably be chastised for admitting it but I also mix with 91 octane that has 10% ethanol. My first 2 saws only lasted 34 years on that mix during which I knew nothing about tuning. Just lucky I guess.

 

[cuinrearview]

Probably. I wouldn't do it, but I'm not concerned that running 40/1 in any of my 50/1 saws is going to cause a problem. I'll probably be chastised for admitting it but I also mix with 91 octane that has 10% ethanol. My first 2 saws only lasted 34 years on that mix during which I knew nothing about tuning. Just lucky I guess.

There are many here who use fuel fresh enough that the corn gas isn't an issue. Many claim that their equipment sits for months with it in it without issue. Different strokes...

They've had corn gas in your area for 34 years?

 

[holeycow]

My old saws seem to have more leeway on tuning. They just run. My new saws are finicky beasties. Their tuning has to be addressed with every weather change. And every one has different baseline carb settings. IDKW.

I liked it better when it was 1 turn out both low and high (+ or - an eighth) , no limiters, and run it like you stole it.