Echo vs. Husky

[Incomplete]

Greetings.

I'm am planning on purchasing a new Limbing saw and some climbing gear to further expand my hobby, possibly into another aspect of my business, but definitely to work on my own and my friends fruit and shade trees.

I have a Husky 455 xp (from a box store) which has been an absolute champ. No matter how long it sits it always starts every time. In the three years I've had it all I've had to do was sharpen the chain. Husky has me sold, my own experience, and also my memories of my dad, and then my brother, constantly working on his Stihl. Two years ago I went to the local family owned Husky dealer and ogled a 338xp T. The dealer also offered me a contractors discount that was absolutely fantastic. But then, the recession really took hold and my dream of another productive toy went up in smoke.

My first question is this: the local family owned Echo dealer is offering the CS-341 for $319.99, and while I know this is full MSRP, it's $200.00 less than the Husky MSRP for the 338. The Echo design is kinda "old" looking but I've seen a lot of the big boys use them. The Husky designs are pretty cool, and it's just so dang cute, but cash is king right now, and he's running on a restricted budget. But I'm a professional. I don't want to waste my time on a tool that's not going to go the distance. One of my mottos is "Take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you. " Will an Echo take care of me as well as a Husky?

My second question: can you please point me in the right direction on how to become a safe SRT in-canopy climber? I've been in awe of treeclimbers videos on youtube and that tool by singing tree looks amazing. I'm no stranger to trees, I've just never been tied to one. )

 

[Tree Pig]

We really need a sticky for this question....

But first option go find someone local that will take you on and teach you the ropes... pay him cash for the time or trade your labor for his teaching. Next READ READ READ... tree climbers companion, On rope, tree climbers guide ETC... other option Pay a school like Arbormasters to learn the ropes. Option two READ is really just in addition to option 1 or 3 not really enough on its own, though it has been done, it is really much better to have someone there that can stop you when your about to screw up... beats the old fashion way of learning the hard way.

Good luck.

 

[Incomplete]

Thanks Stihl. I appreciate it. Learning from a master would be great. I'm not one of those fools who believes that "I have to experience it for myself!" A wiser man learns from another mans mistakes. However, I have never seen a single arborist in my area (Central Illinois) work from ropes from within the tree. They all have ye ol' bucket trucks. Money's so tight it's non-existent. And after watching hours of videos last night I am convinced that the way I've been working, IN trees, (up to now without ropes) is, if not better, at least much funner. As a self employed general contractor I'm a little concerned that any local arborsmith wouldn't even teach me for cash, because of how competitive the job market is. I'll take a hard look in my area and into the school because that may be worth my time (location and price and all that).

I love to read so that won't be a problem for me. You listed three books specifically. Any others? Which one is the best book that come instantly to mind?

Thanks for all you help.

 

[Bomber]

Check out the international society of arborculture website for Illinois. If you join they usually have classes on climbing and rigging. If you get a chance attend the tree climbing competition in you area. I believe it will be like April or may for Illinois. Great place to learn and network with good climbers.

 

[djb6582]

Ive recently started on my own but had been on the ground for several years... The Boss took time to walk me thru the ropes and gide me tru the tree it can get fusterating when your up in the air and hes yelling at you from the ground but the lessons are alwies worth it. He paid me ground wades for climing while he was teaching me now when he needs a climber i get the full climers wage and when I pick up my own work and am not sure i pay him a consult fee to talk me tru it.. A lot safer then hitting a house.... A school or mentor is the way to go..:msp_thumbup:

 

[troythetreeman]

i prefer an echo in the tree
most people swear by stihl
i here mostly bad things about husky top handles

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

Look throught the threads under advanced search. Key word SRT. Lot of good info and pictures. There are other arb forums on the net. Look there also. Climb safe!

 

[formationrx]

...just one mans opinion...

change that plug on your husky and get a new chain...

bomber is right on.... have someone teach you to climb.... and the others are right too... read the books .... check out Arborist Equipment- A Guide to the Tools and Equipment of Tree Maintenance and Removal by Donald Blair.

on climbing: invest in a good life line and some climbing gear..... dont try anything fancy... first learn the basics-- a simple taut line hitch... when you understand how it works and you can use it smoothly... try blakes hitch... when you got that try some other "fancy" set ups if you want.... and dont get all worked up in that tree! RELAX and TRUST your rope..LET GO OF THE TREE your climbing it not ####### it. rest if you need to...enjoy the view...

climbing saws new or used ... best and expensive: stihl 200t/020t/201t ...cheaper but still good..echo 341 & 360t, stihl 019t

 

[Incomplete]

Thanks Formation I'll see about getting that book right away as that was my other question: what all do I need for equipment. The essentials and the necessities. What's the best lifeline to use, in your experience? And what length? I was going to get a saddle kit from Wespur. They had some that looked pretty good even though it was more money than what I found on treestuff.

Are the principles the same as in rock climbing? Or is the equipment substantially different to not be directly transferable for a novice? I might be able to get some lessons from a Gym Rock Wall some where. I know that's not ideal, but if I can't find an experienced Rope-man in my area . . .

Formation, would you be able to post or PM me a basic list of what I need for SRT? And I understand, it's no garenty of safety or anything like that. It's Use at Your Discretion and Chance. But it would be nice to know what the necessities are and how much it's all go to cost.

 

[ATH]

....Are the principles the same as in rock climbing? Or is the equipment substantially different to not be directly transferable for a novice? I might be able to get some lessons from a Gym Rock Wall some where. I know that's not ideal, but if I can't find an experienced Rope-man in my area . . .

While a fair amount of equipment and the knots cross over, there are some significant differences. First, rock climbing uses dynamic line most of the time (some static lines are used for rappelling) while tree climbing is best done with static lines. The biggest difference to me is: when I learned rock climbing the 'rule' was climb the rock, not the rope...the rope is only there to catch you if you fall not to aid in climbing. In trees: climbing the rope, using the rope to assist climbing, reaching out on the tree while leaning on the rope, etc... are all standard fare. Obviously there are other differences, but those are the biggest to me.

 

[Greener]

While a fair amount of equipment and the knots cross over, there are some significant differences. First, rock climbing uses dynamic line most of the time (some static lines are used for rappelling) while tree climbing is best done with static lines. The biggest difference to me is: when I learned rock climbing the 'rule' was climb the rock, not the rope...the rope is only there to catch you if you fall not to aid in climbing. In trees: climbing the rope, using the rope to assist climbing, reaching out on the tree while leaning on the rope, etc... are all standard fare. Obviously there are other differences, but those are the biggest to me.

On the Echo/Husq thing. Some retailers let you try out the saw in some wood out back. If so I would do that just to explore the balance, torque, etc of each saw. (Personally, I would go Stihl 192T for now-if you can't afford the 200 or 201). With the rope climbing, it is great to have teachers and literature, but you will just have to practice-and a lot. More than with spur climbing and other technical aspects of the trade. Have fun with the SRT voyage.

 

[tree md]

You will find all kinds of material out there as far as climbing and safety standards go. One thing that is worth mentioning if you are planing on using that saw in the tree is HAVE TWO TIE IN POINTS BEFORE YOU EVER START YOUR SAW!

I have used all kinds of climbing saws. The lighter duty 192's and Echo's are fine for light duty work. I have found for doing large removals there is no substitute for the Stihl 200T.

 

[Incomplete]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to go with the echo for now.

I saw that double tie off in tr33clim3rs videos on YouTube and was curious about it. Is it just simply two buck straps at different positions transferring tension and load to multiple points?

 

[tree md]

Two buckstraps will work. Most climbers use a lanyard and their climbing line. The idea is to have redundancy in your safety in case you cut through one TIP.

 

[Ax-man]

For never being in a tree how do you know how you are going to like using the SRT method?? It is not what it is cracked up to be. There is a big learning curve to master SRT. Usually SRT is the next step up from the old fashioned DRT of climbing and I might mention is a much easier system to learn and master but it too has a learning curve to master for the novice.

SRT has it's advantages over the DRT technique but I myself just never cared for it and shucked it and just went back to DRT. I am not going to get into a big clmbing debate you can do what you want just don't rule out DRT.

 

[Bomber]

Ax man is right. You should master drt prior too trying srt. You say the budget is limited by the time you buy all the toys to make srt more productive then drt you could have purchased two husky 338's. If your proficient enough in footlocking you will be in the tree before the srt guy finishes setting up equipment.

 

[Incomplete]

For never being in a tree how do you know how you are going to like using the SRT method?? It is not what it is cracked up to be. There is a big learning curve to master SRT. Usually SRT is the next step up from the old fashioned DRT of climbing and I might mention is a much easier system to learn and master but it too has a learning curve to master for the novice.

SRT has it's advantages over the DRT technique but I myself just never cared for it and shucked it and just went back to DRT. I am not going to get into a big clmbing debate you can do what you want just don't rule out DRT.

Thanks for the input Ax-man, I appreciate it. Thanks for the sobering up. I'll keep it in mind as I advance. I realized the other day that I'm was pretty gung-ho, and that I needed to jell up a little.

What has drawn me to SRT is my own experience and the hours of video that I have watched, especially the vids from Singing Tree and Tr33climb3r, and I am convinced that it is the most efficient manner for in-tree pruning and removal. Am I mistaken? And I know that these guys are hardend professionals and that they make the difficult look easy. My experience has been that from childhood I have been climbing 50, 60 feet up in trees with NOTHING. This is understandably more risking, and has kept me close to the bole, not allowing me to do the thurough job I would like and also not giving me access to those trees a ladder can't reach. And I also know now, that in your trade you climb the rope and not the tree. This is a new concept for me but I look forward to the challenge. As a husband and father of four I deffinitely plan on starting low and slow. I'm not in any hurry to injure myself or widow my wife and orphan my children.

Thanks from all your help so far. Keep it coming.

 

[ATH]

Just another 'vote' for drt. That is my preferred method, but I do use SRT when I can't easily get good isolation of the line (lining up the 2 legs of the rope with no branches between them).

Also, in regards to the 2 tie in points: Like treemd said, 'normal' is climbing line plus lanyard (buckstrap, flipline, etc...). Just to share more thoughts on that:
*I do sometimes use 2 lanyards on shorter climbs when it is not worth throwing a climbing line.
*Use a steel core lanyard whenever you are running the chainsaw. I do a lot of pruning without the chainsaw, so I have both a regular line and a steel core. If you are going to be doing most of your with the chainsaw, just get a steel core.
*There is a LOT of discussion about lanyard adjusters. Here are my thoughts (and somebody will disagree, and I am OK with that, I have tried several systems, and this is what I like):
--Start with a 2-in-1 lanyard. With this you should never leave yourself without 2 tie in points (lanyard plus climbing line...clipping both ends of a 2-in-1 does NOT count as 2 TIPs!!!) Use a simple prusik knot for this. Using the 2-in-1 is safer because you are never undone (clip in the one end before unclipping the other, and so on as you move up and around the tree). Being undone from one tie in to relocate is OK (because you are still tied into the climbing line), but always make sure you are clipped back in before making a cut...even just a small cut - get in the habit, it is not hard, and MUCH safer).
--Once you are more comfortable (give it 6 months or a year of regular climbing), you can switch to a single end lanyard. The only reason to make that switch (IMHO) is so you can switch the prusik knot and use an ART Positioner (get the swivel one..I didn't and regret that - I don't regret the Positioner...just that I didn't get the swivel one). Note, that this does not work on steel cores, so if you are using that, then ignore the ART Positioner. The reason I like the ART so much better than any of the other mechanical devices is because it can be loosened under tension. There are others out that that have nice features, but I have found that to be the make-it-or-break-it feature. I prefer a prusik knot over devices that cannot be loosened under tension.

Happy climbing!

Oh...and on the chainsaw: If you are not sawing big chunks all day, I think you will be great with the Echo. I have never found my Husqvarna 338 to be inadequate for what I ask of it...but I know others who would only use a 200T because it has more power. Now...what kind of handsaw are you getting? (don't climb without that on you saddle as well!) There are always a few good posts lingering about this topic. If you have specific questions about those that aren't answered through a search, start a new topic. Or, just save yourself some reading and buy a Silky Sugoi

 

[Ax-man]

Bomber , is right on with his statement not only about the gear but also the time it takes to set the system up. This is one of main reasons I shucked SRT. Way too much fiddling around with gear.

I haven't paid attention to what is new for SRT but when it first hit the climbing scene mechanical hand acsenders were used to help climb the rope and some sort of climbing hitch as a back up . I never cared for those because I didn't feel all that safe and required too much arm strength for my taste. I never had a problem footlocking a rope on DRT may be this is why. Another thing I definately didn't like was having a rope tied off at the base of the tree. That rope always seemed to be in the way and if a branch fell on it it directed right to the tie in point at the base of the tree . The final straw for me was the way the climbing hitch felt on the rope. SRT changes the dynamics of a climbing hitch. All your weight is carried by one rope and the hitch because the load (the climber) is carried on one single line which makes the hitch draw down too tight for my taste. It has a whole different feel. In DRT the load is shared between the two ropes and the hitch is much more responsive and easier to work with for loading and unloading.

This is just my take on the subject. Like all subjects that come up for discussion you will have 50 pro and 50 con.

I think you made a good move with the Echo. They build reliable equipment , a little under powered when compared to Stihl. I myself have never been real impressed with Husky. Yeah, they will start but it seems to take forever and then once they do fire they seem to run lean because they stumble on accleration till they get warm-ed up. That has been my experience with Husky saws.

 

[Incomplete]

Now...what kind of handsaw are you getting? (don't climb without that on you saddle as well!) There are always a few good posts lingering about this topic. If you have specific questions about those that aren't answered through a search, start a new topic. Or, just save yourself some reading and buy a Silky Sugoi

Another fellow also suggested the sugoi. ). Unfortunately the $80.00 price tag is current out of my budget. So I'll get the thirteen inch corona and a boot scabbard. I've got a folding corona that I've been happy with. I know, I know, entry level. D. But the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.