Enforcing Safety

[Ed Roland]

Go to this post on Crane Job

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=107047

He actaully posted pics with him or his guy cutting a big fir with a single tie in and one of his people running a saw mill with zero PPE on.

bcma would want you to submit his infractions to OSHA.

I think it is time we start enforcing the laws, standards, and professionalism of our industry. Let me encourage other professionals to do the same.

Very disturbing.

 

[Sciuropterus]

A tornado touched down South of Minneapolis in an old neighborhood this last Wednesday afternoon. Within 2 hours the tree service places were swarming all over the place. Yesterday the city went around and found and fined 12 guys with no insurance or license to work in the city. The one city official said a lot more dashed mid job as soon as they saw the city vehicles show up. One even left behind his saw, that has to hurt because it was a decent saw.

I own a rental property in that area, we all got hit hard. A city-owned boulevard tree fell into the street, crushing my neighbor's truck. Me and the neighbor were looking at the truck under the tree, one tree service quoted $1300 to remove the tree. Next tree service quoted $800. Some guy with a chainsaw quoted $300.

An hour later, the city crews removed it for free, since it was in the street.

The contractors are descending on the area like vultures. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting some guy with a clipboard who wants to speak to the homeowner.

 

[BRCCArborist]

Go to this post on Crane Job

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=107047

He actaully posted pics with him or his guy cutting a big fir with a single tie in and one of his people running a saw mill with zero PPE on.


Hers a picture of his new house.

Hes out rounding up a bunch of new stones now.

Yikes, I lanyard up even when I'm using a handsaw.

 

[fishercat]

Lmao

that guy is me without hearing protection and prescription glasses.

oh,i don't haul brush in trailers either.

my shirt has my Co. name and phone # to make snitching on me easier for the "sand in the panties" crowd.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I have stated facts here many times, over the past few years, much of it supported by others here. Some of the facts lied about by a couple, but thats been forgiven by me. It is a fact that utility guys here climb with spurs to trim, with the full knowledge and often times direct observation by supervisors from the utility, who are all ISA certified, many threads here on that topic. As well as some municipal arborists, who are ISA certified, so, those are my facts.

And how would the ISA uphold it commandments-perhaps they could call up the utility and ask, uhhh, like for starters, like 'Do all your contractors men climb with spurs to trim',......sheesh, is it that hard, like a phonecall........

Maybe ask our buddy Mr. Tom Dunlap, I am sure he would love to have this talk again..not.

Anyways Sunrise, I have listened to your views here, never have you offended me, and you are most likely a good climber, so, I have no problem with you at all, hope I have answered your question.

Yeah, we're cool. No problem. It's tough to pin anyone down on hard violations on gigs unless pictures are taken, but I know that sometimes is tough to do. The thought of "tree police" is something I'm not positive I would like, but somehow, some way, if there is more accountability in our profession, we will all benefit, and the hacks will have a harder time.

 

[Metals406]

And in these dark days before modern medicine available in remote jobsites, a simple complacent action would more often than not be a sentence to death. Lets not forget the complications of surviving an injury that renders you physically unable to work.

Your good old boys idealist view looks great on paper, but you ignore the good old boys still active in our industry that have seen the ways of old and new, and would more than likely say you are out of your mind for wishing upon their early days.

My Great-Grandfather would say we live in the dark days. He would chose to lose an arm, rather than have some schmuck take his picture, and turn him in to some bloated, corrupt Government controlled agency. In fact, that would have been grounds for a royal ass-whoopin' in the days when men were steel and ships were wood.

BTW, he lost a finger to a circular mill. . . No lawsuit, no whining, no claim that the saw manufacturer made a dangerous product. And we know that life never has 'complications', and we should all be big wussies that shouldn't drink hot coffee, cause it might spill on our laps.

I can't tell you how many times I got injured working in construction. . . Never once did I make a big deal out of it, or go to the doctor. I accepted that it could be dangerous work, and so there was no surprises.

You want to know why comp rates are high, insurance rates are high, and all the other stuff we have to carry to protect our rears? It isn't the guys working under the table, or without insurance, or for less than everyone else. . . It's the babies that cry to momma, and want a free lunch. "I got a sliver at work--I want 6 weeks off, paid, to heal. . . And a settlement for my mental anguish."

Or it's just dishonest wastes of skin, that want a free ride. . . So they fabricate or exaggerate an injury. It's a bunch of crap.

Many times I've helped someone out, and they were worried about liability. You know what I told them? 'If I get hurt bad, drag me into the woods and let the critters have me." No lawsuit, no complaining that life isn't fair, or that I deserve free Medical Care, or that my safety was anyones responsibility but my own.

If you haven't noticed, life can be dangerous. . . There's a 1:1 chance that you will die. People need to get over it, and Man Up!

 

[lego1970]

With my situation, the OSHA inspector was just driving down the highway towards the town I live in. He saw our signs along the road stating "Caution Treework Ahead" and figured, why not pop in and do a spot inspection. My attitude towards him wasn't as good as it could of been, but like I posted earlier, I was doing a tedious pruning in a very wide tree with lots of limb walking and was pissed I had to come out of the tree before finishing the work up there. My attitude may've contributed to his snotty attitude or maybe that was his MO.

I don't blame you for getting pissed off. Honestly, I don't think I would of come down until I was finished with the job regardless of what he threatened or did. I would of probably lost it, if he couldn't wait and come back later. I owned a semi for 5 years and one trip from Kansas City to San Fransisco I had 4 level 1 inspections where they completely go thru your truck. On the 4th inspection outside of Reno I completely lost it, threw the keys outside the truck and told him just to keep the truck and throw me in jail if it made DOT happy. Luckily after things calmed down he understood my frustration of being inspected 4 times in one trip, and let me go.

 

[GlenWimpy]

I think Obama is going to personally inspect all tree crews!

In between paying all of our mortgages!

 

[treemandan]

Go to this post on Crane Job

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=107047

He actaully posted pics with him or his guy cutting a big fir with a single tie in and one of his people running a saw mill with zero PPE on.


Hers a picture of his new house.

Hes out rounding up a bunch of new stones now.

Yeah, I don't think I would make that cut with just one TIP. i mean I could, just wouldn't

 

[pdqdl]

What else would you tie to?

I don't see too many guys running two lanyards on stem cuts. Sometimes it's just down to you, the tree trunk, and your lanyard.

Am I missing out on something? Do you guys usually rig down trunks on two lanyards?

 

[Tree Pig]

What else would you tie to?

I don't see too many guys running two lanyards on stem cuts. Sometimes it's just down to you, the tree trunk, and your lanyard.

Am I missing out on something? Do you guys usually rig down trunks on two lanyards?

I do. I use one standard rap around the the second I criss cross on the connection side so it will act more like a choker if I was to fall free. In theory it should shorten your ride down and save some of the skin on your chest and face. On top of which you would have to accidentally cut two lanyards instead of one before you fall off and land on the rod iron fence below.

 

[Bermie]

What else would you tie to?

I don't see too many guys running two lanyards on stem cuts. Sometimes it's just down to you, the tree trunk, and your lanyard.

Am I missing out on something? Do you guys usually rig down trunks on two lanyards?

Yes
Ever heard of a second lanyard or your climb line???
I did a 100' pine yesterday, steel core on top, rope lanyard 2' below and climb line for a fast descent around a big stub. Sure it takes me a bit longer, but the job is done safe and sound. I work for myself, sole wage earner since my hubby had medical issues, safety matters to me and him!

 

[treemandan]

What else would you tie to?

I don't see too many guys running two lanyards on stem cuts. Sometimes it's just down to you, the tree trunk, and your lanyard.

Am I missing out on something? Do you guys usually rig down trunks on two lanyards?

Isa huh? Well I think your should have your climb line set in there somehow as well.

 

[lego1970]

What else would you tie to?

I don't see too many guys running two lanyards on stem cuts. Sometimes it's just down to you, the tree trunk, and your lanyard.

Am I missing out on something? Do you guys usually rig down trunks on two lanyards?

I normally tie in twice because even a 10' backflip out of a tree could be fatal or hurt pretty bad, but for me a lot has to do with the pucker factor.

1-3 pucker factor - maybe, maybe not.
4-6 pucker factor - yes, unless I'm having a bad day and don't give a crap.
7-10 pucker factor - yes and I might even strap my legs in so I don't shake the gaffs out of the tree.

Seriously though, I use my climbing line and just slide it down near my knees in case I were to cut through the lanyard. I asked in another thread about steel core lanyards because the picture showed a fellow doing a pretty big trunk that you couldn't see around with just a lanyard.

 

[Blakesmaster]

What else would you tie to?

I don't see too many guys running two lanyards on stem cuts. Sometimes it's just down to you, the tree trunk, and your lanyard.

Am I missing out on something? Do you guys usually rig down trunks on two lanyards?

On single stem conifers and the like I rarely use 2 lanyards. I should though. On wide spreading canopies when I finally return to my TIP and blast the last top out, I'll usually keep my climb line around the spar with my lanyard as I chunk down.

 

[teamtree]

It is amazing how this thread has gotten so much response. I am not one to snitch on anyone. I usually use examples like the ones in the pictures as why you should do business with us. In the end guys like that find a way to get out of the business...hell, they don't even have a chipper. Why would you worry so much about them as to take pictures and send them to the authorities. My question to you is if you have been in business for say 4 years or more, why would you be concerned with this situation? Did they take a customer away from you? If so, why? If you have not been in business then go ahead and underbid them to get the work. Show the customer what a real professional can do. You will never stop guys like that, it is far to easy to start a tree service than any other business other than prostitution and lemonade stands.

IMO....if you want to hire someone like that in the picture then you don't want to pay me what I am worth....therefore not a good customer for me.

 

[treeseer]

"My question to you is if you have been in business for say 4 years or more, why would you be concerned with this situation? "

1. It makes all tree guys look bad

2. insurance rates

"Did they take a customer away from you?"

How do we know they do not, or will not?

"If so, why?"

They cheat.

"If you have not been in business then go ahead and underbid them to get the work."

Not a sustainable business decision--out-lowball the lowballers! Where does that lead, but reduced standards for the whole industry, and no money to make payroll?

"You will never stop guys like that."

Not by accepting that kind of tree work in your town, true. IMO, notifying their boss and possibly town officials comes first; save OSHA and the other feds as a last resort.

Glad to hear that posters here understand 2 tie-ins with chainsaw use. Like most "shall"s in the Z, that only makes sense.

 

[teamtree]

Well....I am not saying ignore it at all. I am not saying crying to OSHA is the answer as well.

Educate your customer.

Set an example.

I am not saying I am 100% by the book all the time on all aspects of my business but I try to be the best I can. I sell the importance of professionally run businesses. Uniforms, safety equipment and PPE, signs and cones, good equipment, insurance, training....etc. etc. are things that help our business grow. I am not going to fight for a customer who wants the lowest price. I tell them that up front. I tell them we will save them money by bing more efficient, better trained, better equipped. I will save them money because I will show up when I say I will and I will finish the job no matter what. I do not let jobs go unfinished becuase I want to go get a beer or I can buy a new starter for my chipper or my bucket truck broke down. I will finish the job on-time.

I am not the police and I am not going to go shake my fist at guys that want to play "tree guy" for a few weeks.

I sell myself not curse what others are doing. Then people will ask them why they don't do things like we do.

 

[teamtree]

"Not a sustainable business decision--out-lowball the lowballers! Where does that lead, but reduced standards for the whole industry, and no money to make payroll?

I can tell you first hand I got some of my best customers by being the lowest bidder. I was new to the business and wanted to prove myself. To get the work, I worked cheap. They liked my work and kept me around.

Now, we are pretty efficient at what we do and I see new guys put 2 to 3 times the hours on removals that we do. So....is 2 hours at $300 cheaper than 7 hours at $100? Or would you call it being efficient. So, I look at it this way...I make the new guys pay to come around and want to be cheap. I am efficient and have good guys and good equipment. For what we can do a removal for, it is not going to be easy beer money. And when it gets technical we make hay.

Beat the lowballers at their own game. And you have to play the game my friend.

 

[treemandan]

I can tell you first hand I got some of my best customers by being the lowest bidder. I was new to the business and wanted to prove myself. To get the work, I worked cheap. They liked my work and kept me around.

Now, we are pretty efficient at what we do and I see new guys put 2 to 3 times the hours on removals that we do. So....is 2 hours at $300 cheaper than 7 hours at $100? Or would you call it being efficient. So, I look at it this way...I make the new guys pay to come around and want to be cheap. I am efficient and have good guys and good equipment. For what we can do a removal for, it is not going to be easy beer money. And when it gets technical we make hay.

Beat the lowballers at their own game. And you have to play the game my friend.

Good post my friend.