Ethanol in NY & CT gas

[KarlP]

 

[Tom Dunlap]

We,ve beenusing gasohol in MN for probably twenty years. In the early days there were some problems with older engines and fuel systems deteriorating from the alcohol. Those engines all died long ago and the manufacturers have put in materials that don't break down.

I've never had a problem with corn gas. Only in the last couple of years did I start to use premium for my small engines. For all I know, they're using corn juice to up the numbers. Anyway, if water in the gas were a problem, cars would be dead on the road here in MN from frozen lines. Actually, corn gas keeps the water out of the tank better than adding Heet to the tank. Heet is grain alcohol if I remember right.

I'm sure that there will be more, and contrary, comments later on here

Tom

 

[bwalker]

Ethanol attracts water in a major way. Its also a terrible gasoline additive. The only reason it is used is to pander to the corn lobby.

 

[Sylvatica]

Ben,

I assume that there would be a reduced energy yield proportionate to ethanol added, such as a given engine getting 20 mpg on pure dino gas would only get 17 mpg with 25% ethanol, or whatever the factor is (hypothetically).

Is this true? What percentage value does ethanol, volume for volume, have compared to gasoline?

Water pollution issues aside, is ethanol better or worse for performance than MTBE? Better or worse for potential engine damage?

I must be old fashioned, but I will always consider ethanol as a corrosive, reactive solvent which wreaks havoc with aluminum, bright parts, and anything which could be harmed by the water it binds with. Maybe there is additive chemistry to alleviate this. What do you think?

 

[mbopp]

Yes, I recall fuel system problems in the mid-70's when gasohol first came into wider use. But I also think todays fuel systems are designed to tolerate 10% or maybe more of an alcohol mix.

I did some mileage checks when I could get both gasohol and straight gasoline years ago. There was about a 15% decrease in mileage with identical driving (24 MPG to 20.5 on gasohol).

I read an article (CNN?) that said to make a gallon of alcohol more than a gallon of petroleum was used. ADM is one of the biggest lobbyists (and grain producers) for alcohol. More political payoffs for party contributions.

 

[bwalker]

Not to mention the fact that oxygenates do nothing to reduce pollution and to the counter actually produce it.

 

[bwalker]

is ethanol better or worse for performance than MTBE?

MTBE and ETBE are superior to ethanol in every way.

 

[underwor]

When gasohol first came out in Illinois about 20 years ago, the biggest problem was that it cleaned out your gas tank and plumbing and plugged the fuel filter. I have used it for 20 years in an assortment of vehicles ranging from a 59 Dodge truck to my 2003 Vibe and notice very little difference in performance, except for slightly improved mileage on long trips, about the same as using premium. I don't think I kept any of these vehicles over about 150,000 miles, maybe I did not own them long enough to notice the corroding effects. As Tom said, Heet, or grain alcohol, has been used to prevent gas line freeze, by making the water flammable for what? 50 years??

I use it all winter every winter if it is available. My oldest chainsaw that I use it in occasionally is about 30 years old, an old XXV Poulan. I remember when they said we could not use unleaded gas in a saw without ruining the engine. Guess that was proved wrong a few years back.

Saw a special last night on TV about alternative fuels for cars. It seems like the second demo given by the inventor of the diesel was done using olive oil. Guess our current biodiesel is old news.

My thoughts on the subject. Bob Underwood

 

[eyolf]

couple of minor points. Methanol, methyl alcohol or wood alcohol (CH3OH) is what is in Heet. This is now made from natural gas, but in the past was a product of destructive distillation....cooking the mash too hard resulted in blindness! Used to be that you wanted to stay away from Heet in diaghragm carbs as it raised heck with some soft parts.

Ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol, (C2H5OH) is what is in Jack Daniels and Ol' Grandad, and is a little less water-loving than wood alcohol, but not much. Here in the midwest we make it from corn, (except everclear, which is made from about anything!) but only allow 10% into the gasoline. Doesn't usually have much effect on fuel performance, and seems less destructive to diaghragms. Denatured alcohol is methyl alcohol, but has added Benzene so you can't drink it, and doesn't work as well for fuel additives.

Isopropyl alcohol (3 carbons) is commonly iused as a fuel drier, as it is still able to suspend the water, but is safest for fuel system parts.

There was a lot of complaints back when they started adding the alky to the gas about small engines and their problems. Your lawnmower probably won't care, but your chain saw and other small two-strokes might, depending on how long you leave the stuff stored before using it. We've been through that a lot here....

Because I'm used to seeing it in the gas, it doesn't bother me; I have heard that the Tertiary butyl Ethers are very persistent and quickly find their way into places we would rather they didn't. If my well water started coming up with grain alcohol, I'd find a way to cope , but I'd rather not drink MBTE.

 

[eyolf]

And then nobody has really directly responded to your question....

there should be very little or no water in the gas as you buy it....if there is, go to another station. Over time, the alcohol will attract water, and it could probably take up to 4 or 5% by volume before it would separate out, depending on season (less in cold weather)

Again; we've talked about gas keeping better in metal cans and the need for fresh gas a lot here. In some places you can buy premium gas without alcohol; it's got a warning on the pump that it's for antiques, and non-DOT use.

The only saw I've burned up using modern gas was very likely an operator error....I was using a long bar, on a hot day, stumping off a monstrous old box-elder with a lot of rot. I sucked too much fine dust into the saw, and I think I'd have wrecked it on racing gas.