Ever change prices mid-job?

[Groundman One]

So basically you're saying if the customer said no way and told you to #### off, you'd have been better for it in the long run? Makes sense now.

Well, not quite the same thing, but we were saved from doing an ugly clearing job about a month ago by a refusal from the town to give us fire permits for the scheduled days. (Lots of regions have been denying them outright for two months now.) That job, also priced by my climer, was on the low side. He priced it at $2300. Too me two-minutes to see it should have been closer to $3000. We would have done it for the $2300, but it wouldn't have been much fun.

 

[tree MDS]

I screw up bids all the time, you learn to suck it up and deal. You know its bad when they tip you a couple hundred out of sympathy. Lol.

So there, I'm not perfect.. almost maybe, but not quite.

Actually I'm off to slave it up for a lot less per hour than I anticipated right now. Oh well, at least I don't do it on purpose.. that's when you know you're lowballing hack bag.

 

[Groundman One]

I screw up bids all the time, you learn to suck it up and deal. You know its bad when they tip you a couple hundred out of sympathy. Lol.

A couple of hundred? Have you really got tips that big?

We got $50 each, me and my climber, twice. $20 a few more times, and countless $5 & $10.

So there, I'm not perfect.. almost maybe, but not quite.

Well come back and post when you are. We got standards here, fella.

 

[treevet]

As you have been in the game for longer and longer you bid better and better obviously from experience just like you get from climbing. You take less and less loss jobs until you never take a loss job. Part of that comes from not making any mistakes both in procedure or equipment failures otj. You may get less work but who needs the stinkers anyway?

Plus the more you bid (from being around longer and being more competent) the more confidence you have in bidding with loads of work already on the books.

But changing/raising a bid during a job is bush league and will get you a terrible rep buttonholing you into more and more stinker jobs. :bang:

Too much partaying and laziness not making the contacts you have will also effect the bid pool for you and give you perpetual loser jobs. Not preaching, just commenting from experience.

 

[mckeetree]

I screw up bids all the time

I don't. I just can't afford to screw up any quotes. Any of the time. I see other guys around here locally do it frequently. A while back this jackass that is out of business now starts to question me as to why I bid a dead tree at a certain property so high ($1,675). I told him not to worry about what I bid on anything. This jackass comes back with "Well we bid $700 and I thought that was high but I got the job." I know the guy lost his ass on it as he did on many jobs before he went belly up.

 

[pdqdl]

...

But changing/raising a bid during a job is bush league ...

I agree with all your comments above.

Occasionally, however, it is necessary to change the bid. Sometimes because you cannot do the job you planned on doing, or something has changed on the job that requires a change in the bid price.

In the saga I told above, I simply was unable to complete the job without crushing the house or getting different equipment. I gave the customer the opportunity to fire me without any obligation to pay a dime, so I feel like I acted professionally.

I don't believe that acting "professional" means that the contractor is expected to never make a mistake, nor that a quote once submitted is inviolable. Sometimes things change, and the tree business is hardly an exact science. It is HOW you conduct your affairs that is most important, not just adhering to some lofty ideal while being a jerk otherwise.

Obviously, it is best if you are never wrong, and always act the perfect gentleman (or lady), but most of us can't pull that off.

 

[treevet]

pdqdl, I had not read the OP but just a general comment on the thread and not directed at you. Gotta get back to work.

 

[pdqdl]

I know. I thought your comments were right on target, and well composed as well.

No offense was offered, and none taken. I think we see almost eye to eye on the topic.

 

[tree md]

The only circumstances where I think it would be acceptable to raise the price is if you have to bring specialized equipment on the job (like a crane) due to unforeseeable circumstance (like an unforeseen defect in the tree that would make it unsafe to climb) or if something doesn't go according to plan on the haul off that has been agreed upon (like when the customer says his son in law will pick up the wood and he doesn't show).

The big job I mentioned earlier in the thread ended up having to be done with a crane. This was no surprise to the HO because it was obviously compromised by a large cavity at the base and he had been told by other services that it would need a crane. When I found out how bad it was topside there was noway I was going to risk my life for $2800 and there was noway I was going to foot the bill for a crane. The HO understood this and gave me the go ahead for the crane. I was still able to keep the first tree at the original price with the other work he added on. Professional or not I am not going to kill myself over money and I'm not going to foot the bill for added equipment like a crane.

I also had to go up on a price a couple of months back. The neighbor said he would take the large wood on a job and then backed out when he saw how much it was. No biggie to the HO. I only charged him $225 more for the haul off.

 

[treevet]

that all makes sense...

also when you find concrete or fencing in a tree with the saw but I have it in my contract that they foot the bill for chain and time and never had a prob w/ that.

 

[tree MDS]

I don't. I just can't afford to screw up any quotes. Any of the time. I see other guys around here locally do it frequently. A while back this jackass that is out of business now starts to question me as to why I bid a dead tree at a certain property so high ($1,675). I told him not to worry about what I bid on anything. This jackass comes back with "Well we bid $700 and I thought that was high but I got the job." I know the guy lost his ass on it as he did on many jobs before he went belly up.

Lol. Maybe I should have said "I screw up bids sometimes". I'm actually pretty good at it.. most of the time. but definitely still learning.

TV, I got that and I cant argue with you there. No offense taken.. and yes, it takes one that used to be one, to know one. lol.

MD, good post about the crane and the hidden defect. Thats about the only time I would do that that I can think of. I just had one like that a while back, 100' ash with hidden additional decay that I couldnt see from the ground. I was thinking crane or maybe call someone with a 75 footer.. in the end I said screw that and me and Stubs (my 60 footer) got after it. It wasnt pretty but it was down and fast. lol.

 

[tree md]

Treevet was right about the experience thing. After you have had to eat a few you learn real quick what you can do one for. The more you do the big nasty ones the more you see how much they are worth. I very rarely get caught up in the competition thing ether. If I am competing with someone on a bid I will give a good price but I'm not coming down off of my bottom dollar. I know how much I need to make the profit I need and I'll let someone else have it before I go any lower. Believe me, you don't want them all.

 

[tree MDS]

I'm not that green md, its year 14 on my own. thanks though.

Now that I think about it some more.. its more like I know what the job is worth, but if I lack a certain piece of equipment (log truck, high capacity chip truck, or additional climber if pruning) I still price it as though I had it - just so I have work. I think this is what gets me (sometimes). If I had all that stuff, all of my bids would be fine most likely.

 

[tree md]

Wasn't addressing that to you bud. Just thinking out loud.

 

[tree MDS]

Wasn't addressing that to you bud. Just thinking out loud.

My bad. Sorry md.

Gotta go, this sucks, just heard an old friend passed away. no details yet. sort of kills the friday feeling.

 

[tree md]

My bad. Sorry md.

Gotta go, this sucks, just heard an old friend passed away. no details yet. sort of kills the friday feeling.

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes.

 

[tree MDS]

Thanks MD.

Its not like we didn't see it coming. Still sucks though.

Wrong place to mention it though - sorry bout that as! Didn't mean to start any drama.

 

[treeclimber101]

As you have been in the game for longer and longer you bid better and better obviously from experience just like you get from climbing. You take less and less loss jobs until you never take a loss job. Part of that comes from not making any mistakes both in procedure or equipment failures otj. You may get less work but who needs the stinkers anyway?

Plus the more you bid (from being around longer and being more competent) the more confidence you have in bidding with loads of work already on the books.

But changing/raising a bid during a job is bush league and will get you a terrible rep buttonholing you into more and more stinker jobs. :bang:

Too much partaying and laziness not making the contacts you have will also effect the bid pool for you and give you perpetual loser jobs. Not preaching, just commenting from experience.

There are no loss jobs for me unless I cant afford to refuel the trucks or pay the men , anymore I will take work how I can , this is no time to be picky about price , you are only screwing yourself , I just find ways to make it up another way ,like the past storm I made a months money in a 10 days ..

 

[treevet]

Thanks MD.

Its not like we didn't see it coming. Still sucks though.

Wrong place to mention it though - sorry bout that as! Didn't mean to start any drama.

Sorry to hear that man.

 

[lxt]

It's actually quite easy.

If you have ever used a bucket truck very much, don't even try to tell me that you haven't over estimated where it will reach and discovered that you were wrong.

Haven't you ever bid to remove a tree, only to discover something that you had overlooked that made you change your plan of removal?

Come on! Be honest here!

Did that explain it all?

ever used a bucket truck......YES, over 20yrs of experience...& NO I have never underestimated what I can & cannot reach, especially a stone cold dead ELM, I have done trees much taller than the buckets I was using.....what then you ask? I use the bucket as an elevator & jump out & climb!!!!!!!

And I am being Honest......maybe when I was in my early 20`s & all gung ho did I underbid or work harder than I should have (young, dumb & full of cum)....but underestimating bucket height or over center reach......cant say I have done that in the last 18+ years!!!

would I have changed my bid though......NO! I would have made the Home owner aware that if I could not reach it then I would need specialty equipment at their cost!! up front before jumping in, $400 in 97 was it? you think that was alot back then.......most think thats alot today probably more so than back then!!!!

check out my thread titled ameriquip old but good......there you will see what I was able to do with a bucket no where near tall enough!!

LXT..................