TheKid
ArboristSite Operative
I agree almost 100% with what clearance just said. 'cept for the logging part, never done any logging.
Face cuts.
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Thats just asking for trouble...
[Those blocks get heavy, its hard work, I refuse to waste time and effort putting in undercuts, especially with a big saw like a 288, why? Whatever works, this is what I was taught, done in so many times, seen it done so many times, it makes me laugh to hear this method condemmed here, each to his own.[/QUOTE]
I agree with do what works best with you... The wasting time I have trouble with...I run a ms 660 in everytree I do and im in no hurry to either get killed or kill some one esle let alone damage what it is im tring not to...The wasting time is better in the tree then in a hospital with something broken ...Just how see things.
I agree with do what works best with you... The wasting time I have trouble with...I run a ms 660 in everytree I do and im in no hurry to either get killed or kill some one esle let alone damage what it is im tring not to...The wasting time is better in the tree then in a hospital with something broken ...Just how see things.
9th year rookie
ArboristSite Member
master of the obvious
At a minimum I put a couple of inches into the front side (if no scarf) and back cut my way through due to the risk of ripping down onto my lanyard.
First year, first large take down, brand new spikes in the truck (tried them but couldn't use them), using nylon loop runners with non-locking biners for a lanyard (2 tied together to make it around the larger diameter).
Brushed out a monster white pine, topped it, chunked down the wood. Crashed everything - no rigging/lowering.
1/2 way down I figured I'd save time by eliminating the scarf.
Cutting straight through some pretty big wood, the bark tore down a few inches until it hit my "lanyard". The weight/momentum smacked me into the remaining trunk and then the bark ripped through and broke off.
There isn't a month that goes by since that job that I haven't been in bed at night thinking about the multiple potential tragedies from t/d that pine.
yikes
At a minimum I put a couple of inches into the front side (if no scarf) and back cut my way through due to the risk of ripping down onto my lanyard.
First year, first large take down, brand new spikes in the truck (tried them but couldn't use them), using nylon loop runners with non-locking biners for a lanyard (2 tied together to make it around the larger diameter).
Brushed out a monster white pine, topped it, chunked down the wood. Crashed everything - no rigging/lowering.
1/2 way down I figured I'd save time by eliminating the scarf.
Cutting straight through some pretty big wood, the bark tore down a few inches until it hit my "lanyard". The weight/momentum smacked me into the remaining trunk and then the bark ripped through and broke off.
There isn't a month that goes by since that job that I haven't been in bed at night thinking about the multiple potential tragedies from t/d that pine.
yikes
Thillmaine
ArboristSite Operative
Terrible Idea
I agree with many of the above stories. Cutting straight through is no good, it can rip and catch your lanyard and may not hurt you but on spikes, pull just enough to gaff you out. Snap cut or face cut, no other way para me. Not scary really if your tied in to a high TIP without spikes because you have other means of attachment, or if you are cutting a tee with weak bark, aka maple, or cedar, but pines or oaks, trees that like to rip (elms escpecially) is kinda sketch. No sense risking your self, like someone who is part of this site has for a quote, speed only comes after technique.
I agree with many of the above stories. Cutting straight through is no good, it can rip and catch your lanyard and may not hurt you but on spikes, pull just enough to gaff you out. Snap cut or face cut, no other way para me. Not scary really if your tied in to a high TIP without spikes because you have other means of attachment, or if you are cutting a tee with weak bark, aka maple, or cedar, but pines or oaks, trees that like to rip (elms escpecially) is kinda sketch. No sense risking your self, like someone who is part of this site has for a quote, speed only comes after technique.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Maybe I didn't explain enough, maybe I am missing some thing, how did this happen? I cut right through, saw comes out the other side, I let the saw hang, then I push of the block. The cut is level, the big block will not move on its own, it can take a real good push to move it. So in your case 9th year what did you do wrong, like did you cut on an angle? Did you push on the block before it was completely severed? Your experience makes no sense to me, please explain exactly how this happened. Also, about the spurs........?
I cut right through, saw comes out the other side, I let the saw hang, then I push of the block. The cut is level, the big block will not move on its own, it can take a real good push to move it. Dang you telling me the block stayed in place after you cut all the way through??? I hope the chain never catch the block it will and can spin it out of controll.....I have done the cut through thing only one time and thats just what happened to me..Good luck with that i keep the face cut....
minderaser66
ArboristSite Lurker
it is quicker to do it that way. i do it all the time on wood 20-24" across and maybe 3 -4 ft long. it works fine. when you get to the end of the cut, you just push up on the peice with your other hand,the saw comes out and you push the chunk right where you want it. anything much bigger and i'll put a notch and a pull line on it so it dosent land on me. so simple a tree climber could do it.
didn't measure it, but it coulda been as tall the fir shown that I'm cuttng, which was 155 feet, give or take abt 8 feet....
the fir...
Come out west, young fella, we'll give ya a chance to touch the sky...
I once did a logging job of beetle killed firs in close quarters in the Cascade Mts. The trees were all 110-170 feet. Smallest dbh was 12 inches, largest only 24-27. It's fun dropping 26 footers from 100 feet up!
i have cut almost all the way thru, with sticks jammed on the back side so it doesn't close on saw, got da'hell outta dodge; and into a dodge and ripped her over with quite large diameter stuff; then gone back into it. Bit, not an everyday thang, nor with chance of any spyder guts getting smeared on pretty wood.
Also, have kerfed under lean and left, back cut in, to get it to steer right. the close to left and forward pushing and not connected got it to tear on right and serve over. But, tied in to other places, no chance of peel i was using getting lanyard etc.
Still; i like making faces most of the time; and in wood too!
Fer the record i have pm'd and apologized to thread starter fer getting rambunctious on his 1st post. Alos assured him if ol'Rog said 140'; it wuz at least 138!
Also, have kerfed under lean and left, back cut in, to get it to steer right. the close to left and forward pushing and not connected got it to tear on right and serve over. But, tied in to other places, no chance of peel i was using getting lanyard etc.
Still; i like making faces most of the time; and in wood too!
Fer the record i have pm'd and apologized to thread starter fer getting rambunctious on his 1st post. Alos assured him if ol'Rog said 140'; it wuz at least 138!
Been climbing 31 years, and cut straight through almost all the time on short sections, as I said above......If the wood is small, yes, watch for it spinning away, so then, maybe make a mismatch/snap cut......
A tip to use for larger wood to avoid saw pinch is to backchain (reverse your progress) gently a couple times as the kerf closes from weight...This will open up a space for the bar to move freely, and allow cutting all the way through without pinch. But, on big wood, just hand tap in a long wedge to keep the kerf open. Then use it as a pry bar to slide the block part way off, which will free the saw.
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i've heard....:yoyo:
It's also rumored that your morning wood is not in keeping with your stature....
and legendary throughout the south
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Good time for the acronym T.I.T.S. = tie in twice, stupid.....and taking that ANSI rule for saw use further, one should always choke their lifeline when chunking or sectioning down a spar.
i guess we are talking about big timber felling; seems to all ways make a sound when someone is there to witness?
i also use my reverse stump cut procedure for this in-tree blocking. A stump doesn't have leveraged length to use against it to tip it's own self; and is heavy to boot.
So; i'll cut in from cleanest side (felling side in-tree example); jam stix/ tough bark in kerf to keep from pinching saw. Then remove saw when she starts to breathe/give/move/has life; try to remove props. Come to backside and cut down to the kerf at slant; in stump example this could be on dirty side; starting over the dirt; cutting into clean wood. Now at seperation the weight is next to saw/ not on top of it. A nice backstop is formed on your side in-tree example.
After that in stump example cut off slant/wedge; if dirty start from backside and finish with sledge to snap off dirty piece without dulling saw; in-tree example leave this piece for a higher leveraged push place on next cut especially if only half body length (meaning 1 1/2' or so!:biggrinbounce2: ).
i say reverse stump cut; cuz i like make the long backcut first, then slant 'face', then flat part of 'face'; so cuts is a reverse order strategy.
i also use my reverse stump cut procedure for this in-tree blocking. A stump doesn't have leveraged length to use against it to tip it's own self; and is heavy to boot.
So; i'll cut in from cleanest side (felling side in-tree example); jam stix/ tough bark in kerf to keep from pinching saw. Then remove saw when she starts to breathe/give/move/has life; try to remove props. Come to backside and cut down to the kerf at slant; in stump example this could be on dirty side; starting over the dirt; cutting into clean wood. Now at seperation the weight is next to saw/ not on top of it. A nice backstop is formed on your side in-tree example.
After that in stump example cut off slant/wedge; if dirty start from backside and finish with sledge to snap off dirty piece without dulling saw; in-tree example leave this piece for a higher leveraged push place on next cut especially if only half body length (meaning 1 1/2' or so!:biggrinbounce2: ).
i say reverse stump cut; cuz i like make the long backcut first, then slant 'face', then flat part of 'face'; so cuts is a reverse order strategy.
A trick I like to use when cutting free a big stump and also works great for sections( heavy, wide, and short) is to take a couple of sticks(small diameter dowel rod or cheap wooden round chopsticks is good, or just the right size twig) ; start cutting through and when the bar has passed beyond 50% through your cut,but not quite far enough for it to start to close the kerf, stop cutting, hit the chain break, and shove the sticks in on each side, a little behind the bar, then keep cutting until you come out the other side, beause the sticks were placed past the halfway point this makes the back of the section heavier on the fulcrum than the front where the bar is coming through so the piece actually rocks back and opens up a little as the bar comes through, then after youve killed your saw the sticks double as rollers to help you push the section off. The advantage of keeping a stash of appropriate dowel rods etc. as opposed to using sticks is sometimes the weight of the section will just crush a twig that you might find handy, then it doesn't work too well. Me I usually just wind up jamming a twig or piece of bark in to make do because really, who remembers to carry a stash of dowels or chopsticks around on every job?
minderaser66
ArboristSite Lurker
i dont know... i've been cutting right through chunks and pushing them off forever. only once in a great while does the chain come off and when i think about it i really cant remember the last time it happened. it works fine for me but the only thing i worry about is the saw kicking back when i'm cutting and pushing at the same time. that could be disasterous.
9th year rookie
ArboristSite Member
Sorry Clearance,
When I write it makes sense in my head.
Then I re-read it and it doesn't.
The spikes were in the truck because I had not yet learned to use them.
The bark pealed because I didn't cut all the way through. I cut just enough so I could push it over.
When I write it makes sense in my head.
Then I re-read it and it doesn't.
The spikes were in the truck because I had not yet learned to use them.
The bark pealed because I didn't cut all the way through. I cut just enough so I could push it over.
What??!!
let me know how it feels when your face hits the tree when it peels and pulls you and your lanyard into the tree. I use face cuts on bigger chunks that need direction, but primarily use snap cuts, quicker than making a face but smarter and safer than using just a back cut.
let me know how it feels when your face hits the tree when it peels and pulls you and your lanyard into the tree. I use face cuts on bigger chunks that need direction, but primarily use snap cuts, quicker than making a face but smarter and safer than using just a back cut.
