Falling cert's

[HorseFaller]

Can anyone share info on how to obtain a-c falling cert's. Where do you go? Is this only through North West timberfallers? Most importantly is it a waste of time to get these? I figure why not have them, even if it only looks good on paper.

 

[slowp]

Talk to the Forest Service fallers, or their boss, at a district office near you. The C is hard to get because there are few ceritifiers who can do that. Do it soon, because the certifying is usually done in the Spring.
If that is futile, I may be able to PM you some info. I think Madhatte might know more about this???

 

[HorseFaller]

Thanks Slowp I am headed that direction Monday. I couldn't find anything with them on there website or dnr. Blm had copy's of the booklets you could download but none of them had any mention of testing or classes and such. Thanks again.

 

[forestryworks]

I think you gotta be qualified as a type 2 (FFT2) firefighter before you can take S-212.

I could be wrong though.

 

[Jacob J.]

I think you gotta be qualified as a type 2 (FFT2) firefighter before you can take S-212.

I could be wrong though.

That's correct. In order to get the certs, you have to attend the S-212 Wildfire Powersaws class, and depending on the agency, you
have to do the task books (except for the regular Forest Service employees, who are still on the card system.)

Contracting companies are doing their own certifying and their system is similar to what the government is using, because NFPA
(National Fire Protection Association) tries to emulate NWCG (National Wildfire Coordination Group) now as closely as possible
to avoid problems in ICQS (Incident Command Qualification System)(acronyms are fun.)

Northwest Timber Fallers usually does their own S-212 and in-house certs. Their basic standards includes five years of professional
time and being a FFT2. They do waive the five years experience in some cases, such as for people who already have extensive logging
and firefighting experience in other areas (ex-hook tenders, ex-hotshots, etc) if those individuals exhibit exceptional saw handling
skills and knowledge of falling.

Is it worth it? I dunno. I signed up with NWTF years ago when I was contracting. Unfortunately at the time, it was a very slow two fire
seasons in the northwest. I got three assignments on large fires as a faller, but through local agency contacts, not NWTF. I will say
this, just like in any association, NWTF has a core group of guys who are at the top of the list for assignments. This isn't them being
fair or unfair, these are the guys who've been there since day 1. If you know people at your local Forest Service or BLM, you can do a
"pre-season" agreement with them as an individual and you'd be hired under an "AD" agreement for emergency fire hire.

 

[2dogs]

S-212 is the basic NWCG class the teaches chainsaw safety and does not have any prerequisites. The problem is insurance requirements for the student. If the class is being taught through a local fire district they may not allow any "civilians" in their class.

S-212 has a class room and a practical session. Once you have completed both you will be given an A Faller certificate which allows you to fall uo to 8" DBH trees without supervision. If you are going to be a fireline faller then yes, take the class. If not I don't see any value in the class.

 

[slowp]

I was thinking--non fire.

 

[2dogs]

To add to what Jacob posted in Cali if you want to be a Cal Fire (CDF) fireline faller you also have to take Fireline Safety Awareness for the Hired Vendor. In addition you will need all your own PPE (Nomex shirt, pants, shround, also gloves, hardhat, goggles, boots, web gear, fire shelter ($350.00 alone), saws, fuel and fuel bottles, spare parts, bar oil, etc. A radio may be required (another $1,000.00 plus). The vendor classes can be found on the Cal Fire website and will suffice for the USFS also.

 

[Jacob J.]

I was thinking--non fire.

Sorry- being in fire I tend to think that fire management runs everything.

Down here, we don't do too much certifying of non-fire folks on the forest anymore. About the only non-fire people that go through our
classes are the road maintenance and occasionally resource people who need to do some cutting for a project. If there's a single or small
handful of hazard trees that need to be taken care of, the Ranger always calls the FMO and has them handle it. If it's more than a small
handful, then a contract statement is drawn and the job is thrown up on Fedbizopps.

I don't know of any certifications offered by the agencies to non-agency, non-fire individuals. That is almost always handled by the companies
those people work for. We don't offer any classes here to non-affiliated private citizens, simply because of liability/OSHA issues. Quite a few years
ago one of the districts here put on a class in conjunction with the extension service for private citizens. A woman going through the class
cut her foot pretty good and sued the agency. That put an end to that.

 

[2dogs]

That's too bad since non-fire people, aka taxpayers, are the ones who are paying for the class. Blame the lawyers.

 

[Jacob J.]

That's too bad since non-fire people, aka taxpayers, are the ones who are paying for the class. Blame the lawyers.

Taxpayers also pay for the lawsuits when John Q. Public stubs their toe in a "free" safety class and sees that there's money to be made.

 

[dhskier2]

Check out coloradofirecamp.com . They're a non-agency NWCG accredited training center. They conduct a wide variety to courses releated to wildland firefighting, inlucding S-212 FALA, and FALB certification.

 

[HorseFaller]

Wow! That's alot to take in and sort thru.
My mane thought was to have something else other then saying I cut for so and so or cut on this job. Something hard copy that states I can do basic skill set.

 

[huskyhank]

Its surprising the amount of training this takes.
Do they require similar training to drive trucks?
How do they gather enough trained people when there's a fire?
Seems highly over-regulated to me.

 

[forestryworks]

Check out coloradofirecamp.com . They're a non-agency NWCG accredited training center. They conduct a wide variety to courses releated to wildland firefighting, inlucding S-212 FALA, and FALB certification.

They're a good academy. More of an "on-going" academy, with lots of options as to when to take your class.

Have driven through Salida a few times, nice country.

 

[137cc]

A c-faller qual is only something you need if you work for a government agency. And most people don't know what it is outside the federal government. Beyond that I personally don't think a c-faller qual is a good indicator of tree felling knowledge and experience. Having been a former government employee I have to seen to many clowns that are c-faller carded to give that qual any respect by itself.

Oh yeah, northwest timber fallers is gone now. A lot of those guys still cut on fires, just on their own contracts now. And Colorado fire camp is a fire school, they would just teach basic saw skills for a beginner.

 

[slowp]

This area hires fallers sometimes, to fall the occasional hazard tree. That usually happens during the winter, when the one certified faller is laid off.

You don't need the C faller or any govt. certification of your falling abilities to do that. You need to be bonded, and have all the contractor paperwork lined up, and make yourself known. A list is kept here.

However, if you want to VOLUNTEER to cut hazard trees, you do have to be certified by the FS. At least that was what we were told when a very good and respected local faller tried to volunteer. He was also told that he could not be certified over 24 inches (B) because it was too hard to get someone to certify him as a C faller. Odd, because I think one of the C certifiers lives fairly near to the guy wanting to cut the trees. But, I am not an expert on the whole process so there may be other things in play. He worked out a deal where he got paid and did the work. But he sure felt insulted.

We seldom have any wildfires here. Our C faller does hazard trees in campgrounds and along roads when needed. That's why I don't equate it with the fire organization.

If we needed the C-faller guy, we talked to recreation folks, not fire folks.

Since retiring, I have found a way to get my bucking recertified, and if that goes through, I will be a trail volunteer. However, that is harder to do because it seems there is quite a large demand for getting certified and not enough slots. This is being done through volunteer trail work organizations that come together and have training for their volunteers. The one in these parts is called Trails Skills College and takes place next month in Cascade Locks, OR. The classes are filled up. The certification, which I'm not sure if I got in or not, will be held the next weekend at the old Wind River Ranger Station. It too, fills up quickly.

That's all I know.